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The light pollution is also a problem. 17 years ago I bought a lot in a rural subdivision and have lived there ever since. I consulted a light pollution map bef

The light pollution is also a problem. 17 years ago I bought a lot in a rural subdivision and have lived there ever since. I consulted a light pollution map before buying here, as I'm an amateur astronomer. This is one of the darkest areas in the lower 48 states. I can just about read by the Milky Way on a clear night. I had my pick of the new subdivision when I bought here, and just barely chose to live on the East side, overlooking state land, instead of the West side, with a view of BLM land. Just this year a large wind farm has been built on that BLM land. The nearest turbine is over five miles away, so you can't hear them. But each one has a bright red light at the top, I guess to warn aircraft. Even so far away, with about 20 of those lamps visible it destroys the night darkness, not just for sensitive astronomy, but even for a good night's sleep. I just feel lucky that I'm on the other side of the subdivision and can't see them. That was a close escape. But a few lights are encroaching on my previously pristine view in the far distance as civilization approaches. But I probably have a few years left of dark nights, unlike my West-side neighbors.

sandos 5y ago
"Even so far away, with about 20 of those lamps visible it destroys the night darkness, not just for sensitive astronomy, but even for a good night's sleep." I don't get this _at all_. I happen to live in Sweden, you know the dark, cold place. We have extremely short summer nights, and I can guarantee you that the SUN is so much brighter than your puny lights that its just silly. Nobody (well, almost) complains about that here. There are even many different solutions to, you know, block light from coming indoors. Or are you really sleeping outdoors? It just sounds so much like hyperbole.
- hirundo 5y ago
  I sleep much better in real dark. I used to work night shifts, so have years of experience struggling to sleep with too much light. I never did adjust well to it. Now I probably take it too far, taping over the power light on the phone next to my bed, etc. But I know I sleep better with the blinds down even just to filter out the light from a full moon. No doubt for a lot of people light isn't a problem with sleep at all, particularly for younger people.
quesera 5y ago
> The nearest turbine is over five miles away ... a bright red light at the top ... with about 20 of those lamps visible it destroys the night darkness ... even for a good night's sleep That sounds like a measurable decrease in quality, but to be fair you're starting from a highly unusual baseline. And I don't mean to be uncharitable, but when it comes to sleep effects (reported by others, apparently), I suspect that the light emitted from tower-mounted aircraft lights at a distance of five miles has a greater effect on their psychological perception than on their photon receptors. The light "pollution" of a full moon is surely larger than the tower lamps. And more variable over the night (the moon moves, towers do not).
- lupire 5y ago
  point sources are more intense than diffuse sources.
  - quesera 5y ago
    The moon is effectively a point source of light. Of course it's neither a point nor a source, but in the night sky it acts like one. In dark locations, the moon can be bright enough to cast shadows indoors.

sandos 5y ago

"Even so far away, with about 20 of those lamps visible it destroys the night darkness, not just for sensitive astronomy, but even for a good night's sleep." I don't get this _at all_. I happen to live in Sweden, you know the dark, cold place. We have extremely short summer nights, and I can guarantee you that the SUN is so much brighter than your puny lights that its just silly. Nobody (well, almost) complains about that here. There are even many different solutions to, you know, block light from coming indoors. Or are you really sleeping outdoors? It just sounds so much like hyperbole.

hirundo 5y ago
I sleep much better in real dark. I used to work night shifts, so have years of experience struggling to sleep with too much light. I never did adjust well to it. Now I probably take it too far, taping over the power light on the phone next to my bed, etc. But I know I sleep better with the blinds down even just to filter out the light from a full moon. No doubt for a lot of people light isn't a problem with sleep at all, particularly for younger people.

quesera 5y ago

> The nearest turbine is over five miles away ... a bright red light at the top ... with about 20 of those lamps visible it destroys the night darkness ... even for a good night's sleep That sounds like a measurable decrease in quality, but to be fair you're starting from a highly unusual baseline. And I don't mean to be uncharitable, but when it comes to sleep effects (reported by others, apparently), I suspect that the light emitted from tower-mounted aircraft lights at a distance of five miles has a greater effect on their psychological perception than on their photon receptors. The light "pollution" of a full moon is surely larger than the tower lamps. And more variable over the night (the moon moves, towers do not).

lupire 5y ago
point sources are more intense than diffuse sources.
- quesera 5y ago
  The moon is effectively a point source of light. Of course it's neither a point nor a source, but in the night sky it acts like one. In dark locations, the moon can be bright enough to cast shadows indoors.