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I’ve seen increasing numbers of people who are triggered by capitalism.

paulcole 5y ago
"It's morally abhorrent to try to sell me anything and yet please continue providing content and services at no cost to me. Information wants to be free!"
- npteljes 5y ago
  Well, why not? We also talk to each other for free, giving advice, information, lots of things of some kind of value, and mostly it's free. People organize on platforms to help each other with info, for free, for example you can ask people on Reddit to identify a bug or stone for you. Now I know hosting Reddit isn't free, but this is for another time I think. Now I just want to say that what you pointed out is not really something that's purely illogical or entitled.
  - motoxpro 5y ago
    Hosting Reddit is not free, maintaining reddit is not free, moderators time is not free
    - npteljes 5y ago
      Moderators' time is free, and maintaining reddit could be free. Hosting uses electricity, hardware and internet connection, and neither of those are given away currently.
      - motoxpro 5y ago
        Ah, agree to disagree on that one. That view seems exploitive to me. Moderation, OSS maintainers, etc are all doing those jobs for free and providing them to us for free but there is a large opportunity cost. That's where the saying "it's not worth my time" comes from. If I asked you why you don't maintain and moderate reddit for free (I'm sure they would be happy to have you there and pay you nothing) I would assume your answer would be I have better things to do with my time or I don't have enough time. i.e. I need to be paid for that to be worth it.
        npteljes 5y ago
        Well, yeah, ideally I'd like an UBI-like system, so that one can moderate Reddit full time, and still pay rent and groceries. But letting that aside, do you think that all volunteers are in fact exploited? Or just these examples, because effectively they help someone else make money for free?
        motoxpro 5y ago
        I mentioned exploitive in response to "Moderators' time is free". Which I feel like is an exploitive view. I don't think being a volunteer means you are exploited, but I think someone not valuing their time is almost the definition of it to me. I think moderators time is extremely expensive. They could be doing one million other things with that time and getting paid for it. They could actually be doing the EXACT SAME thing and getting paid for it if they worked for a Reddit/Facebook/StackOverflow or were a community manager for a brand.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > Now I know hosting Reddit isn't free, but this is for another time I think. You can't just pretend like the key fact isn't relevant. Platforms don't grow on trees. Somebody has bills to pay and its up to them how to decide how to pay them. If you don't like their decision, find another platform or moan incessantly about it.
    - npteljes 5y ago
      I know the realities and I don't think this factor is irrelevant - hosting can cost a lot. I bemoan ads specifically, because I think as they are and were, they are a net negative for humanity. Having an addiction fueling platform in exchange for it doubles down on this negativity. I'm thinking where ads are the answer, or the main enabler of content, then the content itself is questionable, is what I'm trying to get at.

"It's morally abhorrent to try to sell me anything and yet please continue providing content and services at no cost to me. Information wants to be free!"

npteljes 5y ago
Well, why not? We also talk to each other for free, giving advice, information, lots of things of some kind of value, and mostly it's free. People organize on platforms to help each other with info, for free, for example you can ask people on Reddit to identify a bug or stone for you. Now I know hosting Reddit isn't free, but this is for another time I think. Now I just want to say that what you pointed out is not really something that's purely illogical or entitled.
- motoxpro 5y ago
  Hosting Reddit is not free, maintaining reddit is not free, moderators time is not free
  - npteljes 5y ago
    Moderators' time is free, and maintaining reddit could be free. Hosting uses electricity, hardware and internet connection, and neither of those are given away currently.
    - motoxpro 5y ago
      Ah, agree to disagree on that one. That view seems exploitive to me. Moderation, OSS maintainers, etc are all doing those jobs for free and providing them to us for free but there is a large opportunity cost. That's where the saying "it's not worth my time" comes from. If I asked you why you don't maintain and moderate reddit for free (I'm sure they would be happy to have you there and pay you nothing) I would assume your answer would be I have better things to do with my time or I don't have enough time. i.e. I need to be paid for that to be worth it.
      - npteljes 5y ago
        Well, yeah, ideally I'd like an UBI-like system, so that one can moderate Reddit full time, and still pay rent and groceries. But letting that aside, do you think that all volunteers are in fact exploited? Or just these examples, because effectively they help someone else make money for free?
        motoxpro 5y ago
        I mentioned exploitive in response to "Moderators' time is free". Which I feel like is an exploitive view. I don't think being a volunteer means you are exploited, but I think someone not valuing their time is almost the definition of it to me. I think moderators time is extremely expensive. They could be doing one million other things with that time and getting paid for it. They could actually be doing the EXACT SAME thing and getting paid for it if they worked for a Reddit/Facebook/StackOverflow or were a community manager for a brand.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > Now I know hosting Reddit isn't free, but this is for another time I think. You can't just pretend like the key fact isn't relevant. Platforms don't grow on trees. Somebody has bills to pay and its up to them how to decide how to pay them. If you don't like their decision, find another platform or moan incessantly about it.
  - npteljes 5y ago
    I know the realities and I don't think this factor is irrelevant - hosting can cost a lot. I bemoan ads specifically, because I think as they are and were, they are a net negative for humanity. Having an addiction fueling platform in exchange for it doubles down on this negativity. I'm thinking where ads are the answer, or the main enabler of content, then the content itself is questionable, is what I'm trying to get at.