5 ms·

>observable facts >FDA says it needs 75 years to release Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine data to the public

rsfern 5y ago
This should be part of our discourse going forward about transparency in clinical trials, but you do not need to rely on this data to make a rational decision to take the vaccine. There is loads of evidence from many different countries now, and there is enough granular evidence to weigh the potential downsides as well (i.e. take the lower dose mRNA if you’re young)
- postsantum 5y ago
  Can people make a rational decision of balancing out their personal risks then? For a young and healthy person there is little upside in taking a dose of mRNA
  - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
    Even if you don't want to and even if you are a hermit in the mountain you are still part of the society. Your decision is not personal it never was and there are now protein based vaccines available so at least you can't use the mrna cop out anymore.
    - postsantum 5y ago
      It is personal. As long as people around me are vaccinated, why would they care about my health? The vaccine doesn't prevent transmitting In case you are talking about burdening the medical system, why not apply the same rhetoric to smoking, drinking, being fat and riding motorcycles?
      - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        I despise smokers, fat goblins as much as antivaxxers like you. The whole argument about preventing transmission is only 2-3 months old what was the hesitation for the rest of the 1 1/2 years we have vaccines available? Cop out after cop out :)
        postsantum 5y ago
        Not antivaxer, had my jab recently. I just respect other people's choice. Science has been settled a bit too many times in the last two years so I can understand some degree of distrust I like how I can figure out your hobbies by omissions. Have fun riding and drinking, not at the same time though ;)
        YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        Yeah, assumptions, slight of hand remarks at least you are sticking to the stereo type. Thankfully I never have to deal with people like you in a real rnd environment. surplus people.
        postsantum 5y ago
        I know, RnD departments can be very lonely places, especially these days. Anyway, was nice to have a good banter with you, friend. See you around!
      - maxerickson 5y ago
        3 doses of vaccination is 60% protective against Omicron transmission. Its not 100% effective, but it's a lot higher than "doesn't".
        ls15 5y ago
        60% seems quite high, given that the CDC director says that the vaccines cannot prevent transmission anymore, but I haven't seen any confirmed numbers for Omicron transmission so far. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-...
        maxerickson 5y ago
        Only a little high: https://twitter.com/wanderer_jasnah/status/1492441121728913411 https://twitter.com/wanderer_jasnah/status/14924411217289134... (effectiveness against Omicron peaks at 55% after the boosters and then declines) Protection against severe disease remains high even with just 2 doses.
      - girvo 5y ago
        > In case you are talking about burdening the medical system, why not apply the same rhetoric to smoking, drinking, being fat and riding motorcycles? People absolutely do. What’s your point?
  - girvo 5y ago
    I am both young and healthy and yet Omicron still made me incredibly sick. If I wasn’t double vaccinated it would’ve been far far worse.
  - rsfern 5y ago
    Yes, based on your personal risk. The vaccine substantially decreases your risk of severe disease from SARS-CoV-2 infection, even if you think that is a low baseline risk. As a young person this comes with a slightly elevated risk of myocarditis, which can be mitigated by taking BNT (30 ug dose) or a half dose of moderna (50 dose). The UK study being discussed elsewhere in here estimates that risk (for young people) on par with risk of myocarditis from SARS-CoV-2 infection If you have had a confirmed infection in the past then you have some immunity so the calculus is a bit different. Probably you should still get one vaccine dose, especially if your infection was pre-omicron My main point is, there is plenty of data available for people to make this assessment for themselves, and holding out for FDA release is not going to provide meaningfully better insight into this risk assessment

This should be part of our discourse going forward about transparency in clinical trials, but you do not need to rely on this data to make a rational decision to take the vaccine. There is loads of evidence from many different countries now, and there is enough granular evidence to weigh the potential downsides as well (i.e. take the lower dose mRNA if you’re young)

postsantum 5y ago
Can people make a rational decision of balancing out their personal risks then? For a young and healthy person there is little upside in taking a dose of mRNA
- YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
  Even if you don't want to and even if you are a hermit in the mountain you are still part of the society. Your decision is not personal it never was and there are now protein based vaccines available so at least you can't use the mrna cop out anymore.
  - postsantum 5y ago
    It is personal. As long as people around me are vaccinated, why would they care about my health? The vaccine doesn't prevent transmitting In case you are talking about burdening the medical system, why not apply the same rhetoric to smoking, drinking, being fat and riding motorcycles?
    - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
      I despise smokers, fat goblins as much as antivaxxers like you. The whole argument about preventing transmission is only 2-3 months old what was the hesitation for the rest of the 1 1/2 years we have vaccines available? Cop out after cop out :)
      - postsantum 5y ago
        Not antivaxer, had my jab recently. I just respect other people's choice. Science has been settled a bit too many times in the last two years so I can understand some degree of distrust I like how I can figure out your hobbies by omissions. Have fun riding and drinking, not at the same time though ;)
        YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
        Yeah, assumptions, slight of hand remarks at least you are sticking to the stereo type. Thankfully I never have to deal with people like you in a real rnd environment. surplus people.
        postsantum 5y ago
        I know, RnD departments can be very lonely places, especially these days. Anyway, was nice to have a good banter with you, friend. See you around!
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      3 doses of vaccination is 60% protective against Omicron transmission. Its not 100% effective, but it's a lot higher than "doesn't".
      - ls15 5y ago
        60% seems quite high, given that the CDC director says that the vaccines cannot prevent transmission anymore, but I haven't seen any confirmed numbers for Omicron transmission so far. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-...
        maxerickson 5y ago
        Only a little high: https://twitter.com/wanderer_jasnah/status/1492441121728913411 https://twitter.com/wanderer_jasnah/status/14924411217289134... (effectiveness against Omicron peaks at 55% after the boosters and then declines) Protection against severe disease remains high even with just 2 doses.
    - girvo 5y ago
      > In case you are talking about burdening the medical system, why not apply the same rhetoric to smoking, drinking, being fat and riding motorcycles? People absolutely do. What’s your point?
- girvo 5y ago
  I am both young and healthy and yet Omicron still made me incredibly sick. If I wasn’t double vaccinated it would’ve been far far worse.
- rsfern 5y ago
  Yes, based on your personal risk. The vaccine substantially decreases your risk of severe disease from SARS-CoV-2 infection, even if you think that is a low baseline risk. As a young person this comes with a slightly elevated risk of myocarditis, which can be mitigated by taking BNT (30 ug dose) or a half dose of moderna (50 dose). The UK study being discussed elsewhere in here estimates that risk (for young people) on par with risk of myocarditis from SARS-CoV-2 infection If you have had a confirmed infection in the past then you have some immunity so the calculus is a bit different. Probably you should still get one vaccine dose, especially if your infection was pre-omicron My main point is, there is plenty of data available for people to make this assessment for themselves, and holding out for FDA release is not going to provide meaningfully better insight into this risk assessment