4 ms·

It can be both. It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. It seems to be that the spike protein is respon

It can be both. It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. It seems to be that the spike protein is responsible for this, which is present in both the virus and the vaccine.

scotty79 5y ago
I think this is far from estabilished. I think increase in myocarditis in young males could be fully explained by how they changed their (social) behavior after getting their second dose after a year of lockdowns. Exposing themselves to additional risks including covid which we know the vaccine doesn't protect completely against.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  My anecdotal experience doesn’t chime with this. I got myocarditis with a covid infection in Apr 2020. Then again, starting almost exactly 24 hours after my first vaccine dose just as other flu-like symptoms kicked in. The rates are low, but I’m pretty sure it can have this effect.
  - scotty79 5y ago
    I think any immune response could trigger miocarditis in you. You got it after a covid vaccine but you might have gotten it after another vaccine or a flu or a cold. Probably prior infection to covid put you at greater risk of getting miocarditis for any reason. I hope it'll get better for you in the long run. Take care.
mschuster91 5y ago
> It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. An Israeli study showed an incidence rate of 2.13 cases/100k people [1] - the common incidence rate for myocarditis in the US is ~22/100k [2]. COVID-19 itself has a 146/100k incidence of myocarditis, in contrast [3]. So please, stop spreading that "vaccines increase the rate of myocarditis", there is no evidence that supports this. And especially, get vaccinated because the complications from COVID-19 are way worse both in severity and rate. [1]: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737 [2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109716364658?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073510971... [3]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm
- 360walk 5y ago
  Table 2 in Link [1] shows an incidence rate for young males of 10.69 not 2.13?
- jcbrand 5y ago
  > The risks are more evenly balanced in younger persons aged up to 40 years, where we estimated the excess in myocarditis events following SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 10 per million with the excess following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine being 15 per million So according to this study, if you're under 40 and have taken the Moderna vaccine, you are more likely to develop Myocarditis than after a Covid infection. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0
- colechristensen 5y ago
  I personally know a young man without health complications who developed significant lasting cardiac symptoms strongly correlated with each dose of vaccine who has struggled so far to get a diagnosis after months, quite doubtful he even ended up one of those statistics. Please stop trying to silence people because you don’t want what they suggest to be true. I am not at all an anti vaccine person but after I had some inflammation in one of my eyes hours after my second dose, I won’t be getting any more without significant evidence addressing safety concerns. I am also not a statistic because I did not make an appointment with an ophthalmologist, I didn’t feel like waiting weeks or paying thousands of dollars unless my symptoms persisted (they didn’t). It is not that implausible that the vaccine is triggering autoimmune damage to some organs, often at initially subclinical extents. It is also not implausible that vaccine morality is making researchers and doctors overly conservative about researching and sharing information about this.
  - hvidgaard 5y ago
    We cannot let anecdotal evidence dictate anything. You're free to not get the vaccine, but at large we cannot base any recommendations on "I know someone that ..." stories. Most of the western world has free health care and people report any small sign of unexpected side effects and they do count in this statistic. An especially during this pandemic people have been very good at contacting their doctor with adverse side effects.
javagram 5y ago
NZ has wide vaccine deployment but very low infection from the virus. So if they don’t have an increase in heart problems, it would strongly suggest the virus is the primary/significant culprit, not the vaccine.

scotty79 5y ago

I think this is far from estabilished. I think increase in myocarditis in young males could be fully explained by how they changed their (social) behavior after getting their second dose after a year of lockdowns. Exposing themselves to additional risks including covid which we know the vaccine doesn't protect completely against.

nicoburns 5y ago
My anecdotal experience doesn’t chime with this. I got myocarditis with a covid infection in Apr 2020. Then again, starting almost exactly 24 hours after my first vaccine dose just as other flu-like symptoms kicked in. The rates are low, but I’m pretty sure it can have this effect.
- scotty79 5y ago
  I think any immune response could trigger miocarditis in you. You got it after a covid vaccine but you might have gotten it after another vaccine or a flu or a cold. Probably prior infection to covid put you at greater risk of getting miocarditis for any reason. I hope it'll get better for you in the long run. Take care.

mschuster91 5y ago

> It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. An Israeli study showed an incidence rate of 2.13 cases/100k people [1] - the common incidence rate for myocarditis in the US is ~22/100k [2]. COVID-19 itself has a 146/100k incidence of myocarditis, in contrast [3]. So please, stop spreading that "vaccines increase the rate of myocarditis", there is no evidence that supports this. And especially, get vaccinated because the complications from COVID-19 are way worse both in severity and rate. [1]: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737 [2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109716364658?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073510971... [3]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

360walk 5y ago
Table 2 in Link [1] shows an incidence rate for young males of 10.69 not 2.13?
jcbrand 5y ago
> The risks are more evenly balanced in younger persons aged up to 40 years, where we estimated the excess in myocarditis events following SARS-CoV-2 infection to be 10 per million with the excess following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine being 15 per million So according to this study, if you're under 40 and have taken the Moderna vaccine, you are more likely to develop Myocarditis than after a Covid infection. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0
colechristensen 5y ago
I personally know a young man without health complications who developed significant lasting cardiac symptoms strongly correlated with each dose of vaccine who has struggled so far to get a diagnosis after months, quite doubtful he even ended up one of those statistics. Please stop trying to silence people because you don’t want what they suggest to be true. I am not at all an anti vaccine person but after I had some inflammation in one of my eyes hours after my second dose, I won’t be getting any more without significant evidence addressing safety concerns. I am also not a statistic because I did not make an appointment with an ophthalmologist, I didn’t feel like waiting weeks or paying thousands of dollars unless my symptoms persisted (they didn’t). It is not that implausible that the vaccine is triggering autoimmune damage to some organs, often at initially subclinical extents. It is also not implausible that vaccine morality is making researchers and doctors overly conservative about researching and sharing information about this.
- hvidgaard 5y ago
  We cannot let anecdotal evidence dictate anything. You're free to not get the vaccine, but at large we cannot base any recommendations on "I know someone that ..." stories. Most of the western world has free health care and people report any small sign of unexpected side effects and they do count in this statistic. An especially during this pandemic people have been very good at contacting their doctor with adverse side effects.

javagram 5y ago

NZ has wide vaccine deployment but very low infection from the virus. So if they don’t have an increase in heart problems, it would strongly suggest the virus is the primary/significant culprit, not the vaccine.