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After spending most of my adult life in Germany, I have to be extra-vigilant when doing anything with money back in the US - from remembering that the prices on

After spending most of my adult life in Germany, I have to be extra-vigilant when doing anything with money back in the US - from remembering that the prices on the shelves are several percent lower than what I’m actually going to have to pay (while being way lower than VAT, sales tax is not included in prices!) to anything to do with cellphones, and then stuff like this.

vinay427 5y ago
On the other hand, after growing up in the US I have to do the same when shopping in Germany or Switzerland. It’s almost unheard of for stores here to offer compensation such as a refund or exchange for many situations commonplace in the US, and many customer service interactions for other things like a phone bill have exhibited stubbornness to arbitrary policies that borders on hostility IMO. I’m not sure sales tax excluded from prices is a matter of vigilance if it’s a nearly-universal national norm. It’s a bit like someone from the US complaining about being charged for bottled water at a restaurant in Spain after assuming they’d receive free tap water.
- strzibny 5y ago
  No, I think this is about mental exercise. Do I have to go shopping with a calculator to know how much I am spending? To me personally it's weird. I come to shop with $5 but I don't know what I can actually buy...
  - vinay427 5y ago
    Yeah, I understand. It's definitely not ideal and I don't want to sound like I'm condoning it because it really should be improved. I'm just not sure there's an obvious solution given the US/Canadian regional/local autonomy over sales taxes, but I'm glad to hear ideas. Most towns in California, for instance, have their own sales tax rates and while this could obviously be accommodated in retail spaces (at the cost of confusing national advertising?) it makes displaying prices rather complicated on online marketplaces which currently add taxes once a shipping address is entered during the checkout process. In contrast, despite the reasonable regional autonomy in Switzerland (not too dissimilar from states in the US) a national VAT rate avoids this issue. The obvious exception is for marketplaces that sell to other markets. For instance, the prices on Amazon.de (Germany) change if a Swiss shipping address is entered due to the different VAT rate.
bin_bash 5y ago
What's so alarming about us not putting sales tax on products? I grew up in the US but in a non sales tax state so my experience until I was 25 was the same as yours. When I later moved to a sales tax state I knew the price was going to be ~5-10% higher than what was printed but I got used to it very quickly. I hate to stereotype but I've found Germans in my experience to take particular offense to this practice. I'm married to someone from the UK and British people complain about this as well but probably only 1/10 as much. I feel like if I asked most Germans their least favorite thing about the US this is would be the MOST common response. I don't get it.
- dtech 5y ago
  It's a real-life dark pattern. The benefits of showing the price with taxes for consumers vastly outweigh the minor problems for stores, other than makes them look cheaper.
  - nottorp 5y ago
    I'd call it "fraud". The store is basically hiding the real price from me. Are there "service charges" too? :)
- pgeorgi 5y ago
  Maybe due to the German fondness for cash? A few percent higher prices aren't as much of a deal when paying with credit card, the transaction works exactly the same, but when paying cash, it might look very different (up to "don't actually have enough with me. oops.")
  - bin_bash 5y ago
    This stands to reason, credit card use in the UK is very high. So high in fact I recall several times before I had a chip card having trouble paying at cashless kiosks.
- danuker 5y ago
  > if I asked most Germans their least favorite thing about the US this is would be the MOST common response Either this or the Imperial units.

vinay427 5y ago

On the other hand, after growing up in the US I have to do the same when shopping in Germany or Switzerland. It’s almost unheard of for stores here to offer compensation such as a refund or exchange for many situations commonplace in the US, and many customer service interactions for other things like a phone bill have exhibited stubbornness to arbitrary policies that borders on hostility IMO. I’m not sure sales tax excluded from prices is a matter of vigilance if it’s a nearly-universal national norm. It’s a bit like someone from the US complaining about being charged for bottled water at a restaurant in Spain after assuming they’d receive free tap water.

strzibny 5y ago
No, I think this is about mental exercise. Do I have to go shopping with a calculator to know how much I am spending? To me personally it's weird. I come to shop with $5 but I don't know what I can actually buy...
- vinay427 5y ago
  Yeah, I understand. It's definitely not ideal and I don't want to sound like I'm condoning it because it really should be improved. I'm just not sure there's an obvious solution given the US/Canadian regional/local autonomy over sales taxes, but I'm glad to hear ideas. Most towns in California, for instance, have their own sales tax rates and while this could obviously be accommodated in retail spaces (at the cost of confusing national advertising?) it makes displaying prices rather complicated on online marketplaces which currently add taxes once a shipping address is entered during the checkout process. In contrast, despite the reasonable regional autonomy in Switzerland (not too dissimilar from states in the US) a national VAT rate avoids this issue. The obvious exception is for marketplaces that sell to other markets. For instance, the prices on Amazon.de (Germany) change if a Swiss shipping address is entered due to the different VAT rate.

bin_bash 5y ago

What's so alarming about us not putting sales tax on products? I grew up in the US but in a non sales tax state so my experience until I was 25 was the same as yours. When I later moved to a sales tax state I knew the price was going to be ~5-10% higher than what was printed but I got used to it very quickly. I hate to stereotype but I've found Germans in my experience to take particular offense to this practice. I'm married to someone from the UK and British people complain about this as well but probably only 1/10 as much. I feel like if I asked most Germans their least favorite thing about the US this is would be the MOST common response. I don't get it.

dtech 5y ago
It's a real-life dark pattern. The benefits of showing the price with taxes for consumers vastly outweigh the minor problems for stores, other than makes them look cheaper.
- nottorp 5y ago
  I'd call it "fraud". The store is basically hiding the real price from me. Are there "service charges" too? :)
pgeorgi 5y ago
Maybe due to the German fondness for cash? A few percent higher prices aren't as much of a deal when paying with credit card, the transaction works exactly the same, but when paying cash, it might look very different (up to "don't actually have enough with me. oops.")
- bin_bash 5y ago
  This stands to reason, credit card use in the UK is very high. So high in fact I recall several times before I had a chip card having trouble paying at cashless kiosks.
danuker 5y ago
> if I asked most Germans their least favorite thing about the US this is would be the MOST common response Either this or the Imperial units.