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> Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. I feel like this is ignoring the fact that if any company other than A

> Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. I feel like this is ignoring the fact that if any company other than Apple made these trackers, it wouldn't do this with anyone's phones. The fact that these work out of the box with iPhones is a bonus, not an entitlement that any phone of any brand should have full support for them without installing any apps and without the user even knowing that the product exists. > All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. I guess they could make the packaging more tamper resistant somehow, but again this is kind of shifting the goals a bit. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that every device will be physically resistant to modifications that would enhance illegal use. An iPhone with the speaker removed and screen cable cut to look dead would make a pretty good tracker too. > AirTags are cheaper than competing GPS trackers, most of which require subscriptions. If you are risking prison time to commit premeditated violence, I think you can spare a few extra bucks for the best technology available. I'm pretty sure professional hitman services run well into the trunk loaded with bags of cash territory.

apexalpha 5y ago
The fact that these work out of the box with iPhones is a bonus, not an entitlement that any phone of any brand should have full support for them without installing any apps and without the user even knowing that the product exists. Isn't this the whole clue, rather than just a bonus? When someone slips an AirTag on to you every single iPhone in the world forms a sort of ad-hoc spying network against you. Without you or the iPhone's owners knowing.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  You can opt out of participating in this spy network, and probably should Settings -> (tap your apple id card at the top) -> Find My -> Find my iPhone -> turn off “Find My Network”
  - apexalpha 5y ago
    That doesn't change a thing. 99,99% of iPhone users won't do this.
    - kennywinker 5y ago
      I wasn’t saying that it’s not a problem because you can opt out, I was saying if this stuff concerns you there is a small but tangible step you can take right now
rekoil 5y ago
> I feel like this is ignoring the fact that if any company other than Apple made these trackers, it wouldn't do this with anyone's phones. Right, and Apple have provided everything that AOSP would need to implement this, someone even made their own version of the entire Find My client long ago (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack), so technically AOSP could even integrate using Find My, although I imagine Apples lawyers would have a field day with this if they did. Identifying the AirTags has also been implemented as a background service by the same organisation as above (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard). > I guess they could make the packaging more tamper resistant somehow, but again this is kind of shifting the goals a bit. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that every device will be physically resistant to modifications that would enhance illegal use. An iPhone with the speaker removed and screen cable cut to look dead would make a pretty good tracker too. This. Plus, the noise AirTags make isn't the only way of finding them, you get the notifications, and soon (when the changes mentioned in the article are implemented) it'll be easier to find them using precision finding.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  I wonder if Apple one day decides to put AirTags into iPhones and other iDevices - or if other vendors follow suit. Basically, that would eliminate phone theft since even shutting the phone off or, for those phones that still have replaceable batteries, removing said battery would still be discoverable.
  - rekoil 5y ago
    Phones will still be stolen for spare parts. I don't see how that ever stops being a thing.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      Yes, but they will now leave a breadcrumb location trail that can be followed up by the authorities, unless thieves become smart enough to disable the embedded AirTag while still on the road - and if that becomes hard enough to be infeasible, theft will become too risky.

apexalpha 5y ago

The fact that these work out of the box with iPhones is a bonus, not an entitlement that any phone of any brand should have full support for them without installing any apps and without the user even knowing that the product exists. Isn't this the whole clue, rather than just a bonus? When someone slips an AirTag on to you every single iPhone in the world forms a sort of ad-hoc spying network against you. Without you or the iPhone's owners knowing.

kennywinker 5y ago
You can opt out of participating in this spy network, and probably should Settings -> (tap your apple id card at the top) -> Find My -> Find my iPhone -> turn off “Find My Network”
- apexalpha 5y ago
  That doesn't change a thing. 99,99% of iPhone users won't do this.
  - kennywinker 5y ago
    I wasn’t saying that it’s not a problem because you can opt out, I was saying if this stuff concerns you there is a small but tangible step you can take right now

rekoil 5y ago

> I feel like this is ignoring the fact that if any company other than Apple made these trackers, it wouldn't do this with anyone's phones. Right, and Apple have provided everything that AOSP would need to implement this, someone even made their own version of the entire Find My client long ago (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack), so technically AOSP could even integrate using Find My, although I imagine Apples lawyers would have a field day with this if they did. Identifying the AirTags has also been implemented as a background service by the same organisation as above (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard). > I guess they could make the packaging more tamper resistant somehow, but again this is kind of shifting the goals a bit. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that every device will be physically resistant to modifications that would enhance illegal use. An iPhone with the speaker removed and screen cable cut to look dead would make a pretty good tracker too. This. Plus, the noise AirTags make isn't the only way of finding them, you get the notifications, and soon (when the changes mentioned in the article are implemented) it'll be easier to find them using precision finding.

mschuster91 5y ago
I wonder if Apple one day decides to put AirTags into iPhones and other iDevices - or if other vendors follow suit. Basically, that would eliminate phone theft since even shutting the phone off or, for those phones that still have replaceable batteries, removing said battery would still be discoverable.
- rekoil 5y ago
  Phones will still be stolen for spare parts. I don't see how that ever stops being a thing.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Yes, but they will now leave a breadcrumb location trail that can be followed up by the authorities, unless thieves become smart enough to disable the embedded AirTag while still on the road - and if that becomes hard enough to be infeasible, theft will become too risky.