8 ms·

What I would like to know is, for young males (i.e. those who are most at risk of myocarditis after the vaccine), does the vaccine lessen cardiac risks in a sub

by isolli 5y ago

What I would like to know is, for young males (i.e. those who are most at risk of myocarditis after the vaccine), does the vaccine lessen cardiac risks in a subsequent infection or not?

donquichotte 5y ago
We got rid of the control group, I wonder if that was smart.
- jmnicolas 5y ago
  Control group here. My heart is perfectly fine and I got symptomatic COVID 2 times.
  - scarygliders 5y ago
    Also control group here. Early 50's, caught original (& symptomatic) Rona early on. Heart seems fine. Son (also control group) caught COVID recently, recovered, heart seems fine. Wife had a vaccine so not in the control group - had an adverse reaction to it and stopped at jab #1.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Santosh83 5y ago
  Am unvaccinated and recovered too. Heart is fine, as far as I can tell.
- kqr 5y ago
  It's not a control if it's self-selected.
  - scarygliders 5y ago
    Nonsense. If a person is unjabbed, they're in the control group, period.
    - kqr 5y ago
      Nope. For the control group to be valid, it must be drawn from the same reference class as the treatment. You could of course argue that in all respects that matter for the risk of heart disease, people who take vaccines are the same as people who don't. I would disagree, and only a bet could settle the difference.
- blangkz 5y ago
  I stayed control, recovered, and am fine. Not noticeable heath or other athletic type difference
wesleywt 5y ago
The rate of myocarditis is much higher if you get Covid than if you get the vaccine . So indirectly getting vaccine will lower your risk since of heart disease as everyone will eventually get covid.
- tux1968 5y ago
  That's only true if the vaccine reduces the chance of myocarditis in patients that go on to get Covid.
  - abc_lisper 5y ago
    One has to be incredibly lucky to not get Covid at some point, now that it has become endemic.
    - tux1968 5y ago
      That's the point. You're still going to get Covid, so the question is, does having the vaccine reduce the prevalence of myocarditis in Covid patients? If it's the same as in the unvaccinated population, then (ignoring other actual benefits for a moment) taking the vaccine may actually increase your risk of myocarditis, since there is the risk with the vaccine itself, plus the risk once you get Covid.
      - abc_lisper 5y ago
        Yeah, taking the vaccination reduces the chance of myocarditis. https://theconversation.com/myocarditis-covid-19-is-a-much-bigger-risk-to-the-heart-than-vaccination-174580 https://theconversation.com/myocarditis-covid-19-is-a-much-b...
        tux1968 5y ago
        I don't see anywhere in that article where it states that myocarditis is less prevalent in patients who subsequently get Covid. Would you mind quoting the relevant bit?
DwarvenAcademy 5y ago
I am 31 and got a heart attack caused by a blood clot last year. Had to undergo double bypass surgery. This happened two months after my second shot so every doctor dismissed the fact of it being related to the vaccine. I was fit and healthy, no smoking, no drinking, no drugs, and exercising regularly with no family history. I never had symptoms but maybe at some point I caught covid without knowing despite going out very rarely and always observing precautions.
- bpizzi 5y ago
  That's terrible, I hope you're recovering to the best possible. Do you happen to know what was your blood pressure prior to the heart attack, and/or your apob level? At least you should have it checked now (I assume that's what have been prescribe by your doctors). It is my understanding that it is more statistically sound to point the cause of a heart attack at your age to genetic/epigenetic factors instead of a potential coronavirus infection with no symptoms.
  - DwarvenAcademy 5y ago
    Thank you, I recovered well and am now able to walk more than one hour each day. I don't know what my pressure was prior to heart attack but now it's kept on the lower side by medications (115/60)
  - verisimi 5y ago
    "It is my understanding that it is more statistically sound to point the cause of a heart attack at your age to genetic/epigenetic factors instead of a potential coronavirus infection with no symptoms." He's saying that he has an effect 2 months after the vaccine. Is that not also worthy of consideration, or do you include it as an epigenetic factor?
    - croon 5y ago
      Consider the billions of shots being taken. Consider the time frame of 2 months. Consider the fact that it was the second shot. Meaning it could have happened within 2 months of the first shot, and then there's a 4 month window of consideration. What do you think is the prevalence of something happening to someone in a pool of, let's say, 4 billion people in 4 months. I'm sure 2 separate people had a potted plant land on their head. Is it worth considering its relation to the vaccine? I'm not saying it can't be related to vaccines, but as an anecdote it's useless until it's shown in statistics, or proven causality by his doctors.
chansiky 5y ago
> "This is the figure, and it shows really clearly, that when you look at myocarditis just in this group, men under the age of 40, it is crystal clear, pfizer dose 2, pfizer dose 3, moderna dose 1, moderna dose 2, have rates of myocarditis greater than the rate of myocarditis post SARS-CoV-2 infection" - Vinay Prasad MD MPH ( https://youtu.be/NR_ZVzrTeYk?t=47 https://youtu.be/NR_ZVzrTeYk?t=47 ) Source used by the video author from nature.com: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf

by isolli 5y ago

What I would like to know is, for young males (i.e. those who are most at risk of myocarditis after the vaccine), does the vaccine lessen cardiac risks in a subsequent infection or not?

donquichotte 5y ago

We got rid of the control group, I wonder if that was smart.

jmnicolas 5y ago
Control group here. My heart is perfectly fine and I got symptomatic COVID 2 times.
- scarygliders 5y ago
  Also control group here. Early 50's, caught original (& symptomatic) Rona early on. Heart seems fine. Son (also control group) caught COVID recently, recovered, heart seems fine. Wife had a vaccine so not in the control group - had an adverse reaction to it and stopped at jab #1.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Santosh83 5y ago
Am unvaccinated and recovered too. Heart is fine, as far as I can tell.
kqr 5y ago
It's not a control if it's self-selected.
- scarygliders 5y ago
  Nonsense. If a person is unjabbed, they're in the control group, period.
  - kqr 5y ago
    Nope. For the control group to be valid, it must be drawn from the same reference class as the treatment. You could of course argue that in all respects that matter for the risk of heart disease, people who take vaccines are the same as people who don't. I would disagree, and only a bet could settle the difference.
blangkz 5y ago
I stayed control, recovered, and am fine. Not noticeable heath or other athletic type difference

wesleywt 5y ago

The rate of myocarditis is much higher if you get Covid than if you get the vaccine . So indirectly getting vaccine will lower your risk since of heart disease as everyone will eventually get covid.

tux1968 5y ago
That's only true if the vaccine reduces the chance of myocarditis in patients that go on to get Covid.
- abc_lisper 5y ago
  One has to be incredibly lucky to not get Covid at some point, now that it has become endemic.
  - tux1968 5y ago
    That's the point. You're still going to get Covid, so the question is, does having the vaccine reduce the prevalence of myocarditis in Covid patients? If it's the same as in the unvaccinated population, then (ignoring other actual benefits for a moment) taking the vaccine may actually increase your risk of myocarditis, since there is the risk with the vaccine itself, plus the risk once you get Covid.
    - abc_lisper 5y ago
      Yeah, taking the vaccination reduces the chance of myocarditis. https://theconversation.com/myocarditis-covid-19-is-a-much-bigger-risk-to-the-heart-than-vaccination-174580 https://theconversation.com/myocarditis-covid-19-is-a-much-b...
      - tux1968 5y ago
        I don't see anywhere in that article where it states that myocarditis is less prevalent in patients who subsequently get Covid. Would you mind quoting the relevant bit?

DwarvenAcademy 5y ago

I am 31 and got a heart attack caused by a blood clot last year. Had to undergo double bypass surgery. This happened two months after my second shot so every doctor dismissed the fact of it being related to the vaccine. I was fit and healthy, no smoking, no drinking, no drugs, and exercising regularly with no family history. I never had symptoms but maybe at some point I caught covid without knowing despite going out very rarely and always observing precautions.

bpizzi 5y ago
That's terrible, I hope you're recovering to the best possible. Do you happen to know what was your blood pressure prior to the heart attack, and/or your apob level? At least you should have it checked now (I assume that's what have been prescribe by your doctors). It is my understanding that it is more statistically sound to point the cause of a heart attack at your age to genetic/epigenetic factors instead of a potential coronavirus infection with no symptoms.
- DwarvenAcademy 5y ago
  Thank you, I recovered well and am now able to walk more than one hour each day. I don't know what my pressure was prior to heart attack but now it's kept on the lower side by medications (115/60)
- verisimi 5y ago
  "It is my understanding that it is more statistically sound to point the cause of a heart attack at your age to genetic/epigenetic factors instead of a potential coronavirus infection with no symptoms." He's saying that he has an effect 2 months after the vaccine. Is that not also worthy of consideration, or do you include it as an epigenetic factor?
  - croon 5y ago
    Consider the billions of shots being taken. Consider the time frame of 2 months. Consider the fact that it was the second shot. Meaning it could have happened within 2 months of the first shot, and then there's a 4 month window of consideration. What do you think is the prevalence of something happening to someone in a pool of, let's say, 4 billion people in 4 months. I'm sure 2 separate people had a potted plant land on their head. Is it worth considering its relation to the vaccine? I'm not saying it can't be related to vaccines, but as an anecdote it's useless until it's shown in statistics, or proven causality by his doctors.

chansiky 5y ago

> "This is the figure, and it shows really clearly, that when you look at myocarditis just in this group, men under the age of 40, it is crystal clear, pfizer dose 2, pfizer dose 3, moderna dose 1, moderna dose 2, have rates of myocarditis greater than the rate of myocarditis post SARS-CoV-2 infection" - Vinay Prasad MD MPH ( https://youtu.be/NR_ZVzrTeYk?t=47 https://youtu.be/NR_ZVzrTeYk?t=47 ) Source used by the video author from nature.com: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf