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I'm a musician. Long term. 43 years old, been playing forever. Don't care if I get any success at it. Not a hobby. Makes money sometimes. I play professio

I'm a musician. Long term. 43 years old, been playing forever. Don't care if I get any success at it. Not a hobby. Makes money sometimes. I play professionally. For money. On stage. If you play for your entire life, you can get really good at a ton of things. I played pedal steel at a rehearsal for my country band tonight. I played piano at a rehearsal for my hot club jazz band on Monday. I played upright bass at a rehearsal for a string band last night. Sunday I recorded a new track with my girlfriend, ambient techno (novation circuit, moog, girlfriend's esoteric warblings). Monday I finished an EDM track. I have a bunch of aspirational goals. I'd like to DJ at my local ecstatic dance. I'd like to front a Louis Prima style jazz band. I've been playing trumpet and trombone every day for the last 2 months. I don't care if I have any professional success. But hard to say all that is a hobby. Maybe I'll eventually be able to retire and just work as a musician, teaching and doing my little gigs and producing the records I engineer for other folks and running sound for the little parties we play out in the desert in Utah. Don't care. My kids are raised, I've got a reasonable remote day job. We'll see how it goes.

eyelidlessness 5y ago
I’m a musician too, for over 30 of my soon to be 40 years. I too don’t care about its “success” I’ve made a grand total of $11 and two tall boys performing, and easily spent a few thousand on gear/recording software (not to mention the running joke that I’m not allowed to buy more guitars). I play/record inconsistently but I love the hell out of it when I’m in it, and I’m just tickled that other people have enjoyed anything I’ve written too. Good for you!
circlefavshape 5y ago
Similar for me. I turned 50 last week, and have a good remote dev job. ATM finishing off recording a song with the band I've been in since 1987. Also running FB ads for some solo piano stuff. Not quite true to say "I don't care" because when my (tiny) audience grows a little it puts me in a good mood, but I do it because its enjoyable in itself
stillblue 5y ago
I'm 31 and just started learning music a year ago. Ever since I started this is probably the only thing I actually enjoy doing everyday. Is it possible to get to a level of proficiency at this point in life where you get to play good enough you can start getting paid for it?
- circlefavshape 5y ago
  Making a living out of music is difficult, but it's not that hard to make pocket money from playing in bar bands. You don't need much in the way of technical proficiency, but probably you'll need to do a lot of playing (esp with other musicians) to learn things like stagecraft and timing before anyone will give you a paid gig.
- Minor49er 5y ago
  You can get paid, but it on its own most likely won't cover the costs that go into creating it. But it's often worth that cost anyways
- scarecrowbob 5y ago
  Yeah, it's a side business for me. Pre-covid, I was making $10-15k a year playing on the weekend. Kind of a fun thing to chase too, as if you're playing paying gigs you get to play with better musicians,
sdfkj2 5y ago
You aren't "succesful" because you have a "real" job that you care too much about. (You're a geek, not a musician.) A "real" musician tells the boss, the wife, the son to go "fuck themselves" and plays to an audience of homeless pedos if he has to, because it's in his blood man. It just ain't in your blood.
- scarecrowbob 5y ago
  I mean, I'm sure your joking, but the reality is that I know folks who live that. From the places I grew up, I can look at Townes or Blaze Foley or any number of folks who drank themselves to death following that line of thought. And those are the "successful" ones. At some point I realized that the main difference between me and the dudes drinking themselves to death on the Armadillo Farm was that I didn't have to take amid-week $50 gig playing "into the mystic" and "brown eyed girl": we were all still playing the same shitty $150 gigs on Saturday afternoon.
achenet 5y ago
you're an inspiration man, thanks for posting that. :)
songeater 5y ago
Similar vein - making music with AI. I had never been blessed with "natural" musical talents so I needed "cybernetic" support to get it done... using openAI's Jukebox. Will write a longer post about the experience at some point / guessing HN may like that. youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRpMo19NwYKloFhnw6QzMg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRpMo19NwYKloFhnw6QzMg soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/songshtr https://soundcloud.com/songshtr blog: songshtr.github.io
- andrewzah 5y ago
  Music is about discipline. "Talent" is more or less a multiplier, but is useless without discipline in the first place. Needing "talent" (to be very good at it) is a myth. You don't have to be the best in the world to be very good at something. There is no secret. It just takes time and work to get good at an instrument or producing. edit: clarity
  - songeater 5y ago
    I mostly agree with you, but with some changes (applies not just to music but any other field). Discipline is the multiplier on talent, not the other way round. "Talent" is most definitely not a myth - to take it to an egregious example, no amount of discipline would ever make me play center in the NBA or piano in Carnegie Hall. But... that's ok.
    - andrewzah 5y ago
      I should specify there's a difference of being in the top percentage of people in a field, and just being very good at that field. With sports, physical attributes are more important but even if you're not gonna be in the NBA you can still be quite good, etc. I don't see music as really competitive in that sense though because everyone has different tastes. Once you put in the time and work to learn to produce or play an instrument, it then comes down to creativity and networking really.
      - songeater 5y ago
andrewzah 5y ago
Considering the cost of music gear + lessons, I find it unlikely I'll ever make a profit. I also consider it more than a hobby, but something I can't fully commit to due to having a day job to focus on.
bodge5000 5y ago
Same for me, though I've never made any money off it, or even played in front of someone. About 4 years ago I started playing with synths because I needed some music for a game dev project, and have loved it ever since (at great detriment to my wallet)
daniel-cussen 5y ago
And success can't be completely ruled out. Only childish success, of being a prodigy and a star very young with no failures, a monotonic career after being (this is the secret) being picked to be a winner by the industry, can be ruled out. > If you play for your entire life, you can get really good at a ton of things. That's the thing. I think what ruined it was the concept that getting to the top required 10,000 hours of practice. That's prostitution, violin takes twice as much, and becoming the best at a very new skill can take only 1,000. But if you put your whole life into it, that too transforms what you can accomplish.
jjulius 5y ago
34 years old, been playing forever, and all that matters to me is that I get to keep listening to music, playing music, collecting music and spinning music. Started playing the violin in orchestra in elementary school, taught myself the double bass in middle school so I could join jazz band, then taught myself the alto sax so I could help teach my little brother. Ended up shifting my focus to DJ'ing, then picked up the guitar in my 20's and now I'm learning the piano. I own some synths, too, and produce Ambient music occasionally. Most of it's for myself, but sometimes I'll spin in a club which is always a blast. I love volunteering with local club promoters to help them throw underground shows. I love putting together abstract concept mixes for myself and sharing them with just some family and friends. I love trying to bend some of my favorite piano pieces into some kind of abstract Ambient piece. I thought about pursuing it as a career and took some music production classes in college, but quickly realized that I really didn't want to bring money into the equation. You could call it a hobby, but I think a better word for it is passion. There's always something new to learn; new methods of playing, new ways to build a set, new instruments to pick up, new records and artists to happen upon. It's exciting to know that I'll always be discovering and learning in an area that I love so much. There's also a strong emphasis on improvisation in most of what I do, and learning how to trust my gut without second-guessing myself is an area that's always up for improvement. I don't need other people to hear what I do, I don't need to make a single cent doing it. I just need to be able to get lost in it. Aside from my wife and kid, there's no better feeling in the world to me than when I get that itch, that urge, that screams, "Go play RIGHT NOW," because I've learned over the years that, even if I don't know what I'm about to play, I almost always fall into that "flow" so goddamned easily and for such a long period of time whenever that urge hits. I love it so much.
- scarecrowbob 5y ago
  That's quite relatable. I've been doing a whole lot of pro-bono hauling of generators/ sound systems to the middle of nowhere lately. I will say that as my kids got older and I got better, going out and playing for a little cash made it slightly easier to feel okay leaving the house. Additionally, I've played with a lot of "Dad" bands, where Thursday night or whatever is how the guys get out and have a couple of drinks and socialize-- as an older guy who has raised kiddos and been through a couple hard relationships, one of the more rewarding things about this practice has been being able to have those social relationships with other guys. And while I like your term "passion", I think that "practice" might be the better thing. In the same sense that one might be a doctor or a plumber or a lawyer. Or in the sense that we might do yoga or meditate. I didn't start playing piano until my late 20s, and I don't think I will ever get to where I can play Brahms or anything, but that instrument by itself seems deep enough to explore for a long, long time. My only point where I am just starting to depart from what you're saying here is that I am finding that, as I get older and find myself more and more invested in this practice I feel like I need to get myself out into the world more. Like, I just bought some genelecs last month, and I have a pair of AKG 414 coming today. Over the last couple of years I've accumulated an octatrack and asome modular synth stuff, a pedal steel guitar setuo, a double bass amp, a PA... all that's paid for itself. But as my kids have left, I also find myself spending about 2-3 hours a day playing trumpet and another couple hours messing around with recordings. I feel like if I am going to spend that much time on stuff, I ought to at least explore how to share it with other folks.
chrisrickard 5y ago
That sounds like a great life… I like making music for the sake of making music, which is specifically relevant atm with FAWM (February Album Writers Month) happening. I’m a hobbyist singer/songwriter, and the forced creativity of having to write 14 songs in 28 days really works for me. Shameless plug, 4 songs in so far! https://fawm.org/fawmers/christmascard/ https://fawm.org/fawmers/christmascard/
ipiz0618 5y ago
That's basically me except I don't even charge for playing. I've been accompanying singers for quite a few years, mostly friends but not requesting any money. Thanks for mentioning this when I almost thought I did everything for money!

eyelidlessness 5y ago

I’m a musician too, for over 30 of my soon to be 40 years. I too don’t care about its “success” I’ve made a grand total of $11 and two tall boys performing, and easily spent a few thousand on gear/recording software (not to mention the running joke that I’m not allowed to buy more guitars). I play/record inconsistently but I love the hell out of it when I’m in it, and I’m just tickled that other people have enjoyed anything I’ve written too. Good for you!

circlefavshape 5y ago

Similar for me. I turned 50 last week, and have a good remote dev job. ATM finishing off recording a song with the band I've been in since 1987. Also running FB ads for some solo piano stuff. Not quite true to say "I don't care" because when my (tiny) audience grows a little it puts me in a good mood, but I do it because its enjoyable in itself

stillblue 5y ago

I'm 31 and just started learning music a year ago. Ever since I started this is probably the only thing I actually enjoy doing everyday. Is it possible to get to a level of proficiency at this point in life where you get to play good enough you can start getting paid for it?

circlefavshape 5y ago
Making a living out of music is difficult, but it's not that hard to make pocket money from playing in bar bands. You don't need much in the way of technical proficiency, but probably you'll need to do a lot of playing (esp with other musicians) to learn things like stagecraft and timing before anyone will give you a paid gig.
Minor49er 5y ago
You can get paid, but it on its own most likely won't cover the costs that go into creating it. But it's often worth that cost anyways
scarecrowbob 5y ago
Yeah, it's a side business for me. Pre-covid, I was making $10-15k a year playing on the weekend. Kind of a fun thing to chase too, as if you're playing paying gigs you get to play with better musicians,

sdfkj2 5y ago

You aren't "succesful" because you have a "real" job that you care too much about. (You're a geek, not a musician.) A "real" musician tells the boss, the wife, the son to go "fuck themselves" and plays to an audience of homeless pedos if he has to, because it's in his blood man. It just ain't in your blood.

scarecrowbob 5y ago
I mean, I'm sure your joking, but the reality is that I know folks who live that. From the places I grew up, I can look at Townes or Blaze Foley or any number of folks who drank themselves to death following that line of thought. And those are the "successful" ones. At some point I realized that the main difference between me and the dudes drinking themselves to death on the Armadillo Farm was that I didn't have to take amid-week $50 gig playing "into the mystic" and "brown eyed girl": we were all still playing the same shitty $150 gigs on Saturday afternoon.

achenet 5y ago

you're an inspiration man, thanks for posting that. :)

songeater 5y ago

Similar vein - making music with AI. I had never been blessed with "natural" musical talents so I needed "cybernetic" support to get it done... using openAI's Jukebox. Will write a longer post about the experience at some point / guessing HN may like that. youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRpMo19NwYKloFhnw6QzMg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRpMo19NwYKloFhnw6QzMg soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/songshtr https://soundcloud.com/songshtr blog: songshtr.github.io

andrewzah 5y ago
Music is about discipline. "Talent" is more or less a multiplier, but is useless without discipline in the first place. Needing "talent" (to be very good at it) is a myth. You don't have to be the best in the world to be very good at something. There is no secret. It just takes time and work to get good at an instrument or producing. edit: clarity
- songeater 5y ago
  I mostly agree with you, but with some changes (applies not just to music but any other field). Discipline is the multiplier on talent, not the other way round. "Talent" is most definitely not a myth - to take it to an egregious example, no amount of discipline would ever make me play center in the NBA or piano in Carnegie Hall. But... that's ok.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    I should specify there's a difference of being in the top percentage of people in a field, and just being very good at that field. With sports, physical attributes are more important but even if you're not gonna be in the NBA you can still be quite good, etc. I don't see music as really competitive in that sense though because everyone has different tastes. Once you put in the time and work to learn to produce or play an instrument, it then comes down to creativity and networking really.
    - songeater 5y ago

andrewzah 5y ago

Considering the cost of music gear + lessons, I find it unlikely I'll ever make a profit. I also consider it more than a hobby, but something I can't fully commit to due to having a day job to focus on.

bodge5000 5y ago

Same for me, though I've never made any money off it, or even played in front of someone. About 4 years ago I started playing with synths because I needed some music for a game dev project, and have loved it ever since (at great detriment to my wallet)

daniel-cussen 5y ago

And success can't be completely ruled out. Only childish success, of being a prodigy and a star very young with no failures, a monotonic career after being (this is the secret) being picked to be a winner by the industry, can be ruled out. > If you play for your entire life, you can get really good at a ton of things. That's the thing. I think what ruined it was the concept that getting to the top required 10,000 hours of practice. That's prostitution, violin takes twice as much, and becoming the best at a very new skill can take only 1,000. But if you put your whole life into it, that too transforms what you can accomplish.

jjulius 5y ago

34 years old, been playing forever, and all that matters to me is that I get to keep listening to music, playing music, collecting music and spinning music. Started playing the violin in orchestra in elementary school, taught myself the double bass in middle school so I could join jazz band, then taught myself the alto sax so I could help teach my little brother. Ended up shifting my focus to DJ'ing, then picked up the guitar in my 20's and now I'm learning the piano. I own some synths, too, and produce Ambient music occasionally. Most of it's for myself, but sometimes I'll spin in a club which is always a blast. I love volunteering with local club promoters to help them throw underground shows. I love putting together abstract concept mixes for myself and sharing them with just some family and friends. I love trying to bend some of my favorite piano pieces into some kind of abstract Ambient piece. I thought about pursuing it as a career and took some music production classes in college, but quickly realized that I really didn't want to bring money into the equation. You could call it a hobby, but I think a better word for it is passion. There's always something new to learn; new methods of playing, new ways to build a set, new instruments to pick up, new records and artists to happen upon. It's exciting to know that I'll always be discovering and learning in an area that I love so much. There's also a strong emphasis on improvisation in most of what I do, and learning how to trust my gut without second-guessing myself is an area that's always up for improvement. I don't need other people to hear what I do, I don't need to make a single cent doing it. I just need to be able to get lost in it. Aside from my wife and kid, there's no better feeling in the world to me than when I get that itch, that urge, that screams, "Go play RIGHT NOW," because I've learned over the years that, even if I don't know what I'm about to play, I almost always fall into that "flow" so goddamned easily and for such a long period of time whenever that urge hits. I love it so much.

scarecrowbob 5y ago
That's quite relatable. I've been doing a whole lot of pro-bono hauling of generators/ sound systems to the middle of nowhere lately. I will say that as my kids got older and I got better, going out and playing for a little cash made it slightly easier to feel okay leaving the house. Additionally, I've played with a lot of "Dad" bands, where Thursday night or whatever is how the guys get out and have a couple of drinks and socialize-- as an older guy who has raised kiddos and been through a couple hard relationships, one of the more rewarding things about this practice has been being able to have those social relationships with other guys. And while I like your term "passion", I think that "practice" might be the better thing. In the same sense that one might be a doctor or a plumber or a lawyer. Or in the sense that we might do yoga or meditate. I didn't start playing piano until my late 20s, and I don't think I will ever get to where I can play Brahms or anything, but that instrument by itself seems deep enough to explore for a long, long time. My only point where I am just starting to depart from what you're saying here is that I am finding that, as I get older and find myself more and more invested in this practice I feel like I need to get myself out into the world more. Like, I just bought some genelecs last month, and I have a pair of AKG 414 coming today. Over the last couple of years I've accumulated an octatrack and asome modular synth stuff, a pedal steel guitar setuo, a double bass amp, a PA... all that's paid for itself. But as my kids have left, I also find myself spending about 2-3 hours a day playing trumpet and another couple hours messing around with recordings. I feel like if I am going to spend that much time on stuff, I ought to at least explore how to share it with other folks.

chrisrickard 5y ago

That sounds like a great life… I like making music for the sake of making music, which is specifically relevant atm with FAWM (February Album Writers Month) happening. I’m a hobbyist singer/songwriter, and the forced creativity of having to write 14 songs in 28 days really works for me. Shameless plug, 4 songs in so far! https://fawm.org/fawmers/christmascard/ https://fawm.org/fawmers/christmascard/

ipiz0618 5y ago

That's basically me except I don't even charge for playing. I've been accompanying singers for quite a few years, mostly friends but not requesting any money. Thanks for mentioning this when I almost thought I did everything for money!