3 ms·

> No part of delivery is new, other than the predatory companies making it irresistibly easy—and using that ease to wedge themselves between restaurants and the

by acchow 5y ago

> No part of delivery is new, other than the predatory companies making it irresistibly easy—and using that ease to wedge themselves between restaurants and their customers. Not new? I don't know what other peoples' experiences are, but before the delivery apps the only delivery food I had ever gotten was pizza. All other takeout was was food we'd pick up on the way home. Also, it seems even the delivery apps lose money. So everyone is losing except the consumer that is getting a product for below the true cost?

Kye 5y ago
Chinese food often had delivery even in places that don't have many delivery options. You're right otherwise. Nothing else offered delivery here.
- djur 5y ago
  What's interesting is that in my neck of the woods most places serving Chinese food were actually Vietnamese restaurants, and none of them ever delivered, but several of the much smaller handful of Chinese places did. (Usually had a large minimum order and a very short delivery range, though.) I always wondered why that was.
zeusk 5y ago
> Also, it seems even the delivery apps lose money. So everyone is losing except the consumer that is getting a product for below the true cost? Maybe, your cost for "delivery" is high - but most things are so much more expensive on doordash without dashpass that often I'd rather just use their app to order free pickup so I don't have to explain my accent to a human over phone.
- vincentmarle 5y ago
  > order free pickup It may be free for you, but not for the restaurant. They still have to pay a double digit commission for pickups. Consider just calling them to truly support local business.
  - paxys 5y ago
    Most apps charge <5% for pickup orders and that includes stuff like credit card commissions. Unless the restaurant has a team of software engineers on staff full time they aren't getting anything for cheaper than that. I don't know of any restaurant in my area that even takes orders over the phone or through their own site. They will simply say "order on Doordash".
    - ramphastidae 5y ago
      100% of restaurants will take pick up orders over the phone without requiring Doordash. Delivery is another story.
      - paxys 5y ago
        When was the last time you picked up the phone and checked? Serious question, because I try it all the time, by default. They will either not answer the phone, refuse entirely, have a problem with payments, or mess up/deprioritize your order. In fact a lot of restaurants that do take phone orders still use Doordash and the like on their end, and you'll end up getting an email/text from them regardless.
        heavyset_go 5y ago
        > When was the last time you picked up the phone and checked? 100% of my takeout orders are made via phone call, and I've never had a problem.
      - acchow 5y ago
        It's 50-50 for me. Half the restaurants tell me to just order through Doordash/UberEats/etc. Clearly they are busy in the restaurant and don't have time to translate my verbal commands into some terminal. I'm sure there are other aspects of unifying all remote orders under one system that they like
southerntofu 5y ago
> So everyone is losing except the consumer that is getting a product for below the true cost? The Uber Eats / Doordash execs are not losing money, even if the company is. They're rich as fuck and building their fortune on quasi-slave labor from thousands of immigrants who patrol the streets with bikes/motorbikes all night long for poor wages The restaurants lose by having to deal with fucking algorithms and a non-existing company support. They get to deal with angry customers when the app accepted payment for something that's not available today, or when the shop has already closed, for example.
- prostoalex 5y ago
  Curious why no one challenged them. The market has high locality, so you wouldn't even have to mount a nationwide delivery service. Pick a second-tier city, sign up a dozen or so of popular restaurants, get a catchy domain like TulsaDelivers.com or SpokaneTakeout.com, and find some local driver partners. Is the app loyalty that high at consumer level? Or would a localized delivery app still not make the margins to offer better terms to drivers?
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    There are people doing this, eg. coopcycle.org. But there's a few barriers: - people who are not from the neighborhood will be familiar with UberWhatever but not with your local platform (network effect) - local platforms can't get away from working regulations (and that's a good thing) so they need much higher margins than multinationals in order to respect the law - small local platforms need actual money/clients to grow, while multinationals like Uber get VC/whoever money "for free" to spend at a loss just to gain market traction in hope for future profit So it's like can you and a few neighbors fight with sticks against the tank of a well-funded invader? Sure, but the odds of success are not great. My best regards to worker coops worldwide who help make capitalism a nightmare of the past.

by acchow 5y ago

Kye 5y ago

Chinese food often had delivery even in places that don't have many delivery options. You're right otherwise. Nothing else offered delivery here.

djur 5y ago
What's interesting is that in my neck of the woods most places serving Chinese food were actually Vietnamese restaurants, and none of them ever delivered, but several of the much smaller handful of Chinese places did. (Usually had a large minimum order and a very short delivery range, though.) I always wondered why that was.

zeusk 5y ago

> Also, it seems even the delivery apps lose money. So everyone is losing except the consumer that is getting a product for below the true cost? Maybe, your cost for "delivery" is high - but most things are so much more expensive on doordash without dashpass that often I'd rather just use their app to order free pickup so I don't have to explain my accent to a human over phone.

vincentmarle 5y ago
> order free pickup It may be free for you, but not for the restaurant. They still have to pay a double digit commission for pickups. Consider just calling them to truly support local business.
- paxys 5y ago
  Most apps charge <5% for pickup orders and that includes stuff like credit card commissions. Unless the restaurant has a team of software engineers on staff full time they aren't getting anything for cheaper than that. I don't know of any restaurant in my area that even takes orders over the phone or through their own site. They will simply say "order on Doordash".
  - ramphastidae 5y ago
    100% of restaurants will take pick up orders over the phone without requiring Doordash. Delivery is another story.
    - paxys 5y ago
      When was the last time you picked up the phone and checked? Serious question, because I try it all the time, by default. They will either not answer the phone, refuse entirely, have a problem with payments, or mess up/deprioritize your order. In fact a lot of restaurants that do take phone orders still use Doordash and the like on their end, and you'll end up getting an email/text from them regardless.
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        > When was the last time you picked up the phone and checked? 100% of my takeout orders are made via phone call, and I've never had a problem.
    - acchow 5y ago
      It's 50-50 for me. Half the restaurants tell me to just order through Doordash/UberEats/etc. Clearly they are busy in the restaurant and don't have time to translate my verbal commands into some terminal. I'm sure there are other aspects of unifying all remote orders under one system that they like

southerntofu 5y ago

> So everyone is losing except the consumer that is getting a product for below the true cost? The Uber Eats / Doordash execs are not losing money, even if the company is. They're rich as fuck and building their fortune on quasi-slave labor from thousands of immigrants who patrol the streets with bikes/motorbikes all night long for poor wages The restaurants lose by having to deal with fucking algorithms and a non-existing company support. They get to deal with angry customers when the app accepted payment for something that's not available today, or when the shop has already closed, for example.

prostoalex 5y ago
Curious why no one challenged them. The market has high locality, so you wouldn't even have to mount a nationwide delivery service. Pick a second-tier city, sign up a dozen or so of popular restaurants, get a catchy domain like TulsaDelivers.com or SpokaneTakeout.com, and find some local driver partners. Is the app loyalty that high at consumer level? Or would a localized delivery app still not make the margins to offer better terms to drivers?
- southerntofu 5y ago
  There are people doing this, eg. coopcycle.org. But there's a few barriers: - people who are not from the neighborhood will be familiar with UberWhatever but not with your local platform (network effect) - local platforms can't get away from working regulations (and that's a good thing) so they need much higher margins than multinationals in order to respect the law - small local platforms need actual money/clients to grow, while multinationals like Uber get VC/whoever money "for free" to spend at a loss just to gain market traction in hope for future profit So it's like can you and a few neighbors fight with sticks against the tank of a well-funded invader? Sure, but the odds of success are not great. My best regards to worker coops worldwide who help make capitalism a nightmare of the past.