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You say that JSX adds complexity and plain HTMl is simple and obvious, and yet, when I look at joystick, I see a render functions, and non-obvious helpers like

You say that JSX adds complexity and plain HTMl is simple and obvious, and yet, when I look at joystick, I see a render functions, and non-obvious helpers like `each, when, component`, etc. JSX is really simple to understand for basic use cases and it provides so many benefits: - support for Javascript expressions - transpilation - better error reporting I'd also argue that JSX is overall a LOT more readable than some of the more advanced examples you provide in the Joystick docs, especially because you don't get syntax highlighting in javascript template literals. > The one consistent theme was confusion about how X framework mapped back to HTML in the browser. I'm not saying you're lying, but in the case of JSX, I find this very hard to believe. I do 100% emphasize with a new developer approaching react who starts with `create-react-app` and has to figure out which routing package to use, etc. But projects like `next.js` reduce the complexity of the mental model significantly IMO (file system routing, sane defaults for compilation, great local dev experience, etc).

rglover 5y ago
Each renders each item in the array you pass, When renders the html you pass when the condition is met, and Component renders another component. Those are all used inside of a plain string, leveraging JavaScript interpolation (core language feature, no hacks). Again, I want you to be able to go from learning pure JavaScript to Joystick. Assuming you learned about stuff like interpolation and template literals, you’d have an existing mental model for understanding what’s happening. Coupled with writing plain HTML, it’s as close to the metal as you can get. As for Next, it’s certainly a step forward, but the folder-based routing is another abstraction that obscures the concept of a URL and uses hacks (like weird folder names to support params) to get what is a one line string in something like Express (the router in Joystick). Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it breaks affordances around how the web works. Check out the Next boilerplate on Github on the CheatCode account. Working on that furthered my motivation to build Joystick. As for syntax highlighting, you can get this by prefixing an html`` before the backticks for your string (I need to spend some time automating this so IDE’s respect the HTML in the string w/o a helper). To be frank, based on your general tone and username, you sound like someone from one of these projects (or your livelihood depends on them in some way) and got your feelings hurt.
minusf 5y ago
readability is subjective, ymmv. jsx makes my eyes bleed, it's like php4 in js, and it's full of corner cases you could never guess without cheatsheets and round trips to the docs.

rglover 5y ago

Each renders each item in the array you pass, When renders the html you pass when the condition is met, and Component renders another component. Those are all used inside of a plain string, leveraging JavaScript interpolation (core language feature, no hacks). Again, I want you to be able to go from learning pure JavaScript to Joystick. Assuming you learned about stuff like interpolation and template literals, you’d have an existing mental model for understanding what’s happening. Coupled with writing plain HTML, it’s as close to the metal as you can get. As for Next, it’s certainly a step forward, but the folder-based routing is another abstraction that obscures the concept of a URL and uses hacks (like weird folder names to support params) to get what is a one line string in something like Express (the router in Joystick). Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it breaks affordances around how the web works. Check out the Next boilerplate on Github on the CheatCode account. Working on that furthered my motivation to build Joystick. As for syntax highlighting, you can get this by prefixing an html`` before the backticks for your string (I need to spend some time automating this so IDE’s respect the HTML in the string w/o a helper). To be frank, based on your general tone and username, you sound like someone from one of these projects (or your livelihood depends on them in some way) and got your feelings hurt.

minusf 5y ago

readability is subjective, ymmv. jsx makes my eyes bleed, it's like php4 in js, and it's full of corner cases you could never guess without cheatsheets and round trips to the docs.