7 ms·

Better coverage here: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/chinese-spies-attempted-to-install-labor-candidates-in-federal-election-20220211-p59vmj.html https

Better coverage here: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/chinese-spies-attempted-to-install-labor-candidates-in-federal-election-20220211-p59vmj.html https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/chinese-spies-attemp... "A Chinese spy ring attempted to bankroll NSW Labor candidates in the upcoming federal election in an attempt to get MPs elected to Australia’s Parliament. The plot was foiled by the nation’s counter-espionage agency ASIO, preventing the spies from installing sympathetic candidates into Labor’s preselection process." The opposition party are already spinning this to claim that the Labor party are friendly to China.

IIAOPSW 5y ago
This honestly makes me suspicious. Arm of government says opposition of current government is corrupted. How convenient. I don't know if ASIO is/isn't/could be weaponized as a political tool or if the sort of person that ends up there can/does use their position to push their personal politics. But it is plausible that it happens and by the nature of the organization such a hypothesis can't really be scrutinized.
- hammock 5y ago
  >This honestly makes me suspicious. Arm of government says opposition of current government is corrupted. How convenient Didn't this happen during Obama's presidency, when Hillary and Trump were running?
  - wavefunction 5y ago
    No, I recall a bunch of suspicious meetings between Trump, his sons, his close confidants and known Russian intelligence assets (keep in mind that includes people like ambassadors) that they lied about having happened until we were presented with evidence that they did, at which point they tried to downplay them. That's my recollection at least.
  - IIAOPSW 5y ago
    Yes. And those accusations were true. And, quite possibly, these Australian accusations are also true. It may or may not be a convenient truth, or a truth withheld until a convenient time, or a similar truth about the other party might also be known to be true but not released. Or maybe Labour really is the more corrupt party and ASIO are earnestly working to protect Australian interests. All of these hypothesis are congruent with the evidence. There's a difference between being skeptical of politically convenient press releases versus being a contrarian that just assumes anything politically convenient must be a lie.
    - mrslave 5y ago
      >> Didn't this happen during Obama's presidency, when Hillary and Trump were running? > Yes. And those accusations were true. What's the rundown on this scandal? A link or TL;DR is fine -- not trying to derail.
      - hammock 5y ago
        Hard to come up with a tldr on what is an extremely complicated scandal (just take a look at how long the knowyourmeme page is on Russiagate). Here is a pretty up to date summary, though, if a bit partisan: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/12/08/why_the_russiagate_scandal_outranks_the_rest_146853.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/12/08/why_th...
      - aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
        Maybe you have reply notifications: this seemed like the closest thing (not close at all, I'm afraid) you'd get to both a complete list, and not having to dig through multiple rants. https://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/the-top-100-most-damaging-wikileaks/ https://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/the-top-100-most-dam...
- phantomathkg 5y ago
  will you say the same if ASIO can table the evidence that a particular candidate is really having relationship or funded by Chinese? Do you really want Australia heavily depending on China like what happened in Australia previously?
  - IIAOPSW 5y ago
    I'm going to go with a slightly higher bar. It is perfectly plausible that these particular candidates really do have some relation or funding from the PRC. But can you say for sure that ASIO doesn't systematically fail to scrutinize the connections and funding of Liberal party politicians? The inherent problem with what I've said is that its a very plausible and precedented thing for a spy organization to do, but it is also a fundamentally untestable hypothesis because you can't really scrutinize the work of spies. So the state of reality where ASIO is earnestly fighting corruption looks the same as the state of reality where ASIO are a political tool. How can you be certain which reality you are in?
- threeseed 5y ago
  ASIO has levelled claims against people connected to government ministers as well e.g. Gladys Liu. Australia doesn't have the same level of deep bipartisanship that exists in the US so I wouldn't assume that our intelligence agency is a political tool.
  - taberiand 5y ago
    It's a bit of a win-win for China, either they corrupt the Labor party or they get caught sow suspicion against the Labor party
mrjangles 5y ago
>spinning this to claim that the Labor party are friendly to China. Sorry but this is ridiculous. The Labor party are openly friendly with China, this isn't some kind of spin. Not only that, but their supporters in the left wing media are even more so. If anyone doubts that, have a read of this article from the main left-wing news site in Australia that is, no joke, trying to spin this into a story about anti-vaxers working with the Russians to interfere in the election. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russian-agent-suspect-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russian-agent-suspect...
- stubish 5y ago
  Updated to China. Obviously ABC needs more funding to afford better sources: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-11/china-accused-attempt-bankroll-labor-candidates-federal-election/100822512 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-11/china-accused-attempt...
- nhinck 5y ago
  > main left-wing news site Which news site are you referring to?
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >this article from the main left-wing news site in Australia Honestly, I read the ABC all the time and the editorial position is very clearly anti-CCP. Stan Grant in particular is one of the most ardent and consistent critics of Xi Jinping, posting articles about their military expansion and increasing concentration of power even when nothing in particular has happened that week to prompt it. Stating that one particular party, or any reputable media organisation (ABC and The Guardian are two I read) supports the CCP or apologises for them is ridiculous.
  - mrjangles 5y ago
    Ok maybe I was being overly hyperbolic before, but the facts here are clear: The CCP used people in Australia to get close to, and pay off, politicians who they thought would be inclined to favor their cause. Every single one of them belonged to the Labor party. I don't think anyone can call this spin, and I don't think any honest person would doubt that the media would be going absolutely bananas right now if all these people were Liberal party. Hell, they even tried to smear a Liberal party politician as a Chinese spy simply because she was a member of an overseas student club, that is how low they would sink. As for Stan Grant, he has been approached multiple times by both the National party and Liberal party to run for parliament with them. He was then put into the ABC by Ida Buttrose after she came to the ABC with express goal of evening out the extreme left wing bias at the ABC. His purpose at being at the ABC is literally to give a different perspective to their usual stuff. As for the ABC and Guardian, they are constantly pushing their audience to believe that democracy is deeply flawed. They are also constantly talking about what an amazing economic system China has and that their model is the way of the future. The only reason they are anti CCP in particular is because the entire word-wide left turned anti-China back in January 2019 overnight.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
weq 5y ago
Chinese in Australia vote Libreal which is our Ulta-Conversative Ring-Wing party (so backwards) This is 100% bullshit made up by our corrupt government just like it does every year during an election. Literly the definition of fake news right here. labor or the greens dont stand a chance, they have no connections in the media and couldnt get a fake news story started even if it wanted. Australia is controlled by mining magnate racist f*cks who only care about becoming even bigger billionaires, keeping the asians out and retaining power/land-rights by owning media/large corporations in regional areas, demonising the aboringal cultures while scamming them for land-rights, and play yet "we love the working class card", sponsor the best sporting events, and literly lie and cheat and steal until to reinforce there own corruption. its a solid game-plan thats been refined over the last 25yrs and turned this country into a backwater of political scammers and donars elite.
- joeman1000 5y ago
  Nice schizo-post
- lazyeye 5y ago
  If only we could somehow harness hatred as an energy source, it would be the ultimate renewable.
tonfreed 5y ago
Both major parties here are friendly with ASIO, having both given them enough overreaching powers over the last 20 years that they've pretty much got free reign to do whatever they want. The CCP is probably just bankrolling whoever they think will be sympathetic, Gladys Liu is a Liberal with a giant question mark over her head at the moment.

IIAOPSW 5y ago

This honestly makes me suspicious. Arm of government says opposition of current government is corrupted. How convenient. I don't know if ASIO is/isn't/could be weaponized as a political tool or if the sort of person that ends up there can/does use their position to push their personal politics. But it is plausible that it happens and by the nature of the organization such a hypothesis can't really be scrutinized.

hammock 5y ago
>This honestly makes me suspicious. Arm of government says opposition of current government is corrupted. How convenient Didn't this happen during Obama's presidency, when Hillary and Trump were running?
- wavefunction 5y ago
  No, I recall a bunch of suspicious meetings between Trump, his sons, his close confidants and known Russian intelligence assets (keep in mind that includes people like ambassadors) that they lied about having happened until we were presented with evidence that they did, at which point they tried to downplay them. That's my recollection at least.
- IIAOPSW 5y ago
  Yes. And those accusations were true. And, quite possibly, these Australian accusations are also true. It may or may not be a convenient truth, or a truth withheld until a convenient time, or a similar truth about the other party might also be known to be true but not released. Or maybe Labour really is the more corrupt party and ASIO are earnestly working to protect Australian interests. All of these hypothesis are congruent with the evidence. There's a difference between being skeptical of politically convenient press releases versus being a contrarian that just assumes anything politically convenient must be a lie.
  - mrslave 5y ago
    >> Didn't this happen during Obama's presidency, when Hillary and Trump were running? > Yes. And those accusations were true. What's the rundown on this scandal? A link or TL;DR is fine -- not trying to derail.
    - hammock 5y ago
      Hard to come up with a tldr on what is an extremely complicated scandal (just take a look at how long the knowyourmeme page is on Russiagate). Here is a pretty up to date summary, though, if a bit partisan: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/12/08/why_the_russiagate_scandal_outranks_the_rest_146853.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/12/08/why_th...
    - aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
      Maybe you have reply notifications: this seemed like the closest thing (not close at all, I'm afraid) you'd get to both a complete list, and not having to dig through multiple rants. https://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/the-top-100-most-damaging-wikileaks/ https://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/the-top-100-most-dam...
phantomathkg 5y ago
will you say the same if ASIO can table the evidence that a particular candidate is really having relationship or funded by Chinese? Do you really want Australia heavily depending on China like what happened in Australia previously?
- IIAOPSW 5y ago
  I'm going to go with a slightly higher bar. It is perfectly plausible that these particular candidates really do have some relation or funding from the PRC. But can you say for sure that ASIO doesn't systematically fail to scrutinize the connections and funding of Liberal party politicians? The inherent problem with what I've said is that its a very plausible and precedented thing for a spy organization to do, but it is also a fundamentally untestable hypothesis because you can't really scrutinize the work of spies. So the state of reality where ASIO is earnestly fighting corruption looks the same as the state of reality where ASIO are a political tool. How can you be certain which reality you are in?
threeseed 5y ago
ASIO has levelled claims against people connected to government ministers as well e.g. Gladys Liu. Australia doesn't have the same level of deep bipartisanship that exists in the US so I wouldn't assume that our intelligence agency is a political tool.
- taberiand 5y ago
  It's a bit of a win-win for China, either they corrupt the Labor party or they get caught sow suspicion against the Labor party

mrjangles 5y ago

>spinning this to claim that the Labor party are friendly to China. Sorry but this is ridiculous. The Labor party are openly friendly with China, this isn't some kind of spin. Not only that, but their supporters in the left wing media are even more so. If anyone doubts that, have a read of this article from the main left-wing news site in Australia that is, no joke, trying to spin this into a story about anti-vaxers working with the Russians to interfere in the election. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russian-agent-suspect-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russian-agent-suspect...

stubish 5y ago
Updated to China. Obviously ABC needs more funding to afford better sources: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-11/china-accused-attempt-bankroll-labor-candidates-federal-election/100822512 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-11/china-accused-attempt...
nhinck 5y ago
> main left-wing news site Which news site are you referring to?
AussieWog93 5y ago
>this article from the main left-wing news site in Australia Honestly, I read the ABC all the time and the editorial position is very clearly anti-CCP. Stan Grant in particular is one of the most ardent and consistent critics of Xi Jinping, posting articles about their military expansion and increasing concentration of power even when nothing in particular has happened that week to prompt it. Stating that one particular party, or any reputable media organisation (ABC and The Guardian are two I read) supports the CCP or apologises for them is ridiculous.
- mrjangles 5y ago
  Ok maybe I was being overly hyperbolic before, but the facts here are clear: The CCP used people in Australia to get close to, and pay off, politicians who they thought would be inclined to favor their cause. Every single one of them belonged to the Labor party. I don't think anyone can call this spin, and I don't think any honest person would doubt that the media would be going absolutely bananas right now if all these people were Liberal party. Hell, they even tried to smear a Liberal party politician as a Chinese spy simply because she was a member of an overseas student club, that is how low they would sink. As for Stan Grant, he has been approached multiple times by both the National party and Liberal party to run for parliament with them. He was then put into the ABC by Ida Buttrose after she came to the ABC with express goal of evening out the extreme left wing bias at the ABC. His purpose at being at the ABC is literally to give a different perspective to their usual stuff. As for the ABC and Guardian, they are constantly pushing their audience to believe that democracy is deeply flawed. They are also constantly talking about what an amazing economic system China has and that their model is the way of the future. The only reason they are anti CCP in particular is because the entire word-wide left turned anti-China back in January 2019 overnight.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

weq 5y ago

Chinese in Australia vote Libreal which is our Ulta-Conversative Ring-Wing party (so backwards) This is 100% bullshit made up by our corrupt government just like it does every year during an election. Literly the definition of fake news right here. labor or the greens dont stand a chance, they have no connections in the media and couldnt get a fake news story started even if it wanted. Australia is controlled by mining magnate racist f*cks who only care about becoming even bigger billionaires, keeping the asians out and retaining power/land-rights by owning media/large corporations in regional areas, demonising the aboringal cultures while scamming them for land-rights, and play yet "we love the working class card", sponsor the best sporting events, and literly lie and cheat and steal until to reinforce there own corruption. its a solid game-plan thats been refined over the last 25yrs and turned this country into a backwater of political scammers and donars elite.

joeman1000 5y ago
Nice schizo-post
lazyeye 5y ago
If only we could somehow harness hatred as an energy source, it would be the ultimate renewable.

tonfreed 5y ago

Both major parties here are friendly with ASIO, having both given them enough overreaching powers over the last 20 years that they've pretty much got free reign to do whatever they want. The CCP is probably just bankrolling whoever they think will be sympathetic, Gladys Liu is a Liberal with a giant question mark over her head at the moment.