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> It needs to be about minimizing total damage, even if it means damaging isolated areas intentionally. I think that's an arithmetic everyone largely accepts,

> It needs to be about minimizing total damage, even if it means damaging isolated areas intentionally. I think that's an arithmetic everyone largely accepts, but they just don't want to be the specific ones paying the price while others seemingly get only the benefits. NIMBYism, if you will.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
It's 100% NIMBYism. Just like the complaints about how higher-density housing may hurt 'the environment' for whatever city people live in. Like, if everyone blocks high density housing, those people don't just disappear, they're gonna end up living in low density housing, and that's obviously much worse for the environment: takes up more space, which means cutting into nature more, and generally takes more energy for the lifestyle too. But that doesn't matter to NIMBY's -- the important thing is that they don't have to see the environment changing where they live in particular.
- jibe 5y ago
  It isn’t really NIMBYism to oppose remote desert solar plants, it is just people who care, perhaps without fully weighing cost/benefit, about any negative effect on nature. There is a rational case that the huge footprint of solar and wind ends up doing more damage than more compact nuclear or natural gas plants. I suspect most of those opposing solar also oppose nuclear and gas. I’d call it Nothing Is Good Enough Syndrome instead of NIMBY.
  - Teknoman117 5y ago
    > I’d call it Nothing Is Good Enough Syndrome instead of NIMBY. Definitely. Problem for us is that while more net-zero projects are being constructed than ever before, increased demand for energy has outpaced it, so we're ending up with more "dirty" energy capacity being added, not to mention the infuriating trend of decommissioning nuclear plants and replacing them with gas turbines. We need to be building plants based on whatever net-zero technologies we know how to build. If that means more nuclear fission plants in the short term, whatever. Yeah I get that radioactive waste is a problem, but it's way easier to store the waste safely than it is to suck carbon out of the atmosphere. If something better comes about along the way, switch to building that when it comes. But don't just twiddle your thumbs and wait for it.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Like the wealthy Bay Area town that just recently sought to block the development of affordable housing under the pretext of protecting mountain lion habitat. These people would literally rather live next to mountain lions than next to slightly poorer people. (ignoring the fact that mountain lions don't actually roam bay area suburbs) https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/02/07/woodside-officials-forced-to-reverse-course-on-mountain-lion-sanctuary-declaration/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/02/07/woodside-offici...
  - tarasglek 5y ago
    you mean they don't cross el camino? https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/20/jaywalking-mountain-lion-eludes-capture-by-san-mateo-police/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/20/jaywalking-moun... Next door neighbour's driveway had a mauled deer carcass in middle of day, few years ago.
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    Tongue in cheek: Of course mountain lions are preferable. They are much rarer than the hoards of poor people. Which one do I want in the background of my "chillin' at home" insta pics?

TulliusCicero 5y ago

It's 100% NIMBYism. Just like the complaints about how higher-density housing may hurt 'the environment' for whatever city people live in. Like, if everyone blocks high density housing, those people don't just disappear, they're gonna end up living in low density housing, and that's obviously much worse for the environment: takes up more space, which means cutting into nature more, and generally takes more energy for the lifestyle too. But that doesn't matter to NIMBY's -- the important thing is that they don't have to see the environment changing where they live in particular.

jibe 5y ago
It isn’t really NIMBYism to oppose remote desert solar plants, it is just people who care, perhaps without fully weighing cost/benefit, about any negative effect on nature. There is a rational case that the huge footprint of solar and wind ends up doing more damage than more compact nuclear or natural gas plants. I suspect most of those opposing solar also oppose nuclear and gas. I’d call it Nothing Is Good Enough Syndrome instead of NIMBY.
- Teknoman117 5y ago
  > I’d call it Nothing Is Good Enough Syndrome instead of NIMBY. Definitely. Problem for us is that while more net-zero projects are being constructed than ever before, increased demand for energy has outpaced it, so we're ending up with more "dirty" energy capacity being added, not to mention the infuriating trend of decommissioning nuclear plants and replacing them with gas turbines. We need to be building plants based on whatever net-zero technologies we know how to build. If that means more nuclear fission plants in the short term, whatever. Yeah I get that radioactive waste is a problem, but it's way easier to store the waste safely than it is to suck carbon out of the atmosphere. If something better comes about along the way, switch to building that when it comes. But don't just twiddle your thumbs and wait for it.
missedthecue 5y ago
Like the wealthy Bay Area town that just recently sought to block the development of affordable housing under the pretext of protecting mountain lion habitat. These people would literally rather live next to mountain lions than next to slightly poorer people. (ignoring the fact that mountain lions don't actually roam bay area suburbs) https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/02/07/woodside-officials-forced-to-reverse-course-on-mountain-lion-sanctuary-declaration/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/02/07/woodside-offici...
- tarasglek 5y ago
  you mean they don't cross el camino? https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/20/jaywalking-mountain-lion-eludes-capture-by-san-mateo-police/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/20/jaywalking-moun... Next door neighbour's driveway had a mauled deer carcass in middle of day, few years ago.
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  Tongue in cheek: Of course mountain lions are preferable. They are much rarer than the hoards of poor people. Which one do I want in the background of my "chillin' at home" insta pics?