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I was learning Japanese in Tokyo while also working on a small-business accounting app. Japanese accounting is extremely specific, so even for someone enrolled

by gleenn 5y ago

I was learning Japanese in Tokyo while also working on a small-business accounting app. Japanese accounting is extremely specific, so even for someone enrolled in classes, there was no way I would be learning all those kanji any time soon. I impressed a Japanese co-worker though, because I quickly learned visually where the buttons I needed to click were so I could copy the app features from iPhone to Android. Turns out you don't have to be able to read almost anything as long as you see something used correctly and can remember button locations visually etc.

Beltalowda 5y ago
When I was young I played a lot of Japanese games on the MSX like this: try stuff, see what happens, memorize, repeat as needed. I played through SD Snatcher and some other games like this. Kids can have a lot of patience in a weird way like that. Today I'd probably give up after a few minutes.
- qwertycrackers 5y ago
  When my younger brother was very young (perhaps 5 or 6 years old), he inherited my old Gameboy Color with my copy of Pokemon Crystal, which I had left saved at some random point midway through the game. He, not knowing how to read, never realized that there was such a thing as saves or progress in the game. In his mind, that save point was his "start point", where he would always begin his adventures and the pokemon I had left him with were the only ones he ever used. He loved to run around in the wild battling pokemon and occasionally making very accidental progress away from his "start point". One time, he managed to stumble his way into using Cut to remove a tree and entered a whole new world of things to explore! After a while he become totally lost, and wanting to return to familiar territory he simply restarted the Game Boy and was right back where he knew. We continue to find much humor in the degree to which children can make any random experience a fun adventure.
  - wincy 5y ago
    My daughter loves to play “that spaceship game” (Among Us) despite not knowing how to read. She had great fun running around and looking at everything. She knows how to join lobbies. It’s probably good she doesn’t know how to read as I’d imagine there are a lot of very angry 12 year olds throwing expletives her way for being “bad” at the game.
PaulHoule 5y ago
Chinese characters are hard to learn even if you are Chinese. Places that use them have high illiteracy rates but many people learn how to "fake it".
- gibolt 5y ago
  This is very much untrue. Writing with a pen, maybe. Rare, obscure characters from ancient texts, sure. Basic daily-use characters are understandable to even most of the elderly in super remote villages.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    I live in Shanghai. This isn’t true. Lots of people over 50 in Zhejiang, one of the richest provinces in China, are functionally illiterate, knowing maybe 1,000 characters. In poorer provinces people who are younger than that will be illiterate. In Western China there are tons of villages where no one speaks Mandarin so they sure as hell aren’t going to be literate in it. A very large majority of people under 30 are literate because in the Han core areas most people finished primary school but there are lots of illiterate people.
mgarciaisaia 5y ago
Japanese was something we Argentinians really didn't know back in the 90's when I was a kid (we still don't usually know it, but now I know some people who are picking up classes). But then there was Captain Tsubasa's FamiCom game, which some friends had, only in Japanese - and it amazed me how easily they went through all of the menus to change whatever settings they wanted. Kids, spare time, the desire to play some videogames, and a country whose market wasn't that attractive - an awesome combination.
wccrawford 5y ago
I worked at Office Depot for a while, and Chinese couple brought in their laptop with a problem. OD didn't do repairs, but I had worked at a Gateway 2000 call center and a local computer shop, so I knew my way around. Their computer was completely in Chinese, but that didn't stop me from just quickly clicking through to the control panel and fixing the problem. They were practically slack-jawed staring at me, and then asked, "Do you speak Chinese?" I told them I just know where the buttons are. :D It was experiences like that (helping a customer beyond what the store supported, in extreme situations) that make me miss retail sometimes. All the BS makes sure I don't go back.
- gtm1260 5y ago
  This reminded me why I loved my retail job, but I think its partially because I was retail inside an amusement park: I missed out on most of the BS (people were generally very happy to be there/ having a great day).
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    From that I find myself assuming it was one of the smaller parks, to avoid the "people going insane over wringing every last bit of 'fun' out of an incredibly expensive vacation" problem.
- closetohome 5y ago
  Reminds me of a helpdesk job I had back when Windows 98 was the standard. Before the display settings had that handy confirmation countdown, it was surprisingly easy to set your display to something the monitor couldn't handle, leaving you with no way of seeing what was on the screen to change it back. Eventually I memorized the series of keystrokes required to get into display properties and reduce the resolution, which usually fixed the problem.
mellavora 5y ago
yes, back in the good old days when buttons stayed put instead of dynamically rearranging themselves to put the most recent one of the top.
jhugo 5y ago
I've spent many years in countries where I understand very little of the local language, so this has been basically my life when interacting with local apps etc. I just learn which buttons to press, largely through trial and error or a few sessions with a second phone and Google Translate in camera mode, and can get quite "fluent" with the app without ever really learning the language. This kind of "UI literacy" is not universal though; I encounter other people who are not at all capable of doing this without understanding what the text on the buttons means.

by gleenn 5y ago

Beltalowda 5y ago

When I was young I played a lot of Japanese games on the MSX like this: try stuff, see what happens, memorize, repeat as needed. I played through SD Snatcher and some other games like this. Kids can have a lot of patience in a weird way like that. Today I'd probably give up after a few minutes.

qwertycrackers 5y ago
When my younger brother was very young (perhaps 5 or 6 years old), he inherited my old Gameboy Color with my copy of Pokemon Crystal, which I had left saved at some random point midway through the game. He, not knowing how to read, never realized that there was such a thing as saves or progress in the game. In his mind, that save point was his "start point", where he would always begin his adventures and the pokemon I had left him with were the only ones he ever used. He loved to run around in the wild battling pokemon and occasionally making very accidental progress away from his "start point". One time, he managed to stumble his way into using Cut to remove a tree and entered a whole new world of things to explore! After a while he become totally lost, and wanting to return to familiar territory he simply restarted the Game Boy and was right back where he knew. We continue to find much humor in the degree to which children can make any random experience a fun adventure.
- wincy 5y ago
  My daughter loves to play “that spaceship game” (Among Us) despite not knowing how to read. She had great fun running around and looking at everything. She knows how to join lobbies. It’s probably good she doesn’t know how to read as I’d imagine there are a lot of very angry 12 year olds throwing expletives her way for being “bad” at the game.

PaulHoule 5y ago

Chinese characters are hard to learn even if you are Chinese. Places that use them have high illiteracy rates but many people learn how to "fake it".

gibolt 5y ago
This is very much untrue. Writing with a pen, maybe. Rare, obscure characters from ancient texts, sure. Basic daily-use characters are understandable to even most of the elderly in super remote villages.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  I live in Shanghai. This isn’t true. Lots of people over 50 in Zhejiang, one of the richest provinces in China, are functionally illiterate, knowing maybe 1,000 characters. In poorer provinces people who are younger than that will be illiterate. In Western China there are tons of villages where no one speaks Mandarin so they sure as hell aren’t going to be literate in it. A very large majority of people under 30 are literate because in the Han core areas most people finished primary school but there are lots of illiterate people.

mgarciaisaia 5y ago

Japanese was something we Argentinians really didn't know back in the 90's when I was a kid (we still don't usually know it, but now I know some people who are picking up classes). But then there was Captain Tsubasa's FamiCom game, which some friends had, only in Japanese - and it amazed me how easily they went through all of the menus to change whatever settings they wanted. Kids, spare time, the desire to play some videogames, and a country whose market wasn't that attractive - an awesome combination.

wccrawford 5y ago

I worked at Office Depot for a while, and Chinese couple brought in their laptop with a problem. OD didn't do repairs, but I had worked at a Gateway 2000 call center and a local computer shop, so I knew my way around. Their computer was completely in Chinese, but that didn't stop me from just quickly clicking through to the control panel and fixing the problem. They were practically slack-jawed staring at me, and then asked, "Do you speak Chinese?" I told them I just know where the buttons are. :D It was experiences like that (helping a customer beyond what the store supported, in extreme situations) that make me miss retail sometimes. All the BS makes sure I don't go back.

gtm1260 5y ago
This reminded me why I loved my retail job, but I think its partially because I was retail inside an amusement park: I missed out on most of the BS (people were generally very happy to be there/ having a great day).
- crooked-v 5y ago
  From that I find myself assuming it was one of the smaller parks, to avoid the "people going insane over wringing every last bit of 'fun' out of an incredibly expensive vacation" problem.
closetohome 5y ago
Reminds me of a helpdesk job I had back when Windows 98 was the standard. Before the display settings had that handy confirmation countdown, it was surprisingly easy to set your display to something the monitor couldn't handle, leaving you with no way of seeing what was on the screen to change it back. Eventually I memorized the series of keystrokes required to get into display properties and reduce the resolution, which usually fixed the problem.

mellavora 5y ago

yes, back in the good old days when buttons stayed put instead of dynamically rearranging themselves to put the most recent one of the top.

jhugo 5y ago

I've spent many years in countries where I understand very little of the local language, so this has been basically my life when interacting with local apps etc. I just learn which buttons to press, largely through trial and error or a few sessions with a second phone and Google Translate in camera mode, and can get quite "fluent" with the app without ever really learning the language. This kind of "UI literacy" is not universal though; I encounter other people who are not at all capable of doing this without understanding what the text on the buttons means.