7 ms·

Tesla factory is “racially segregated workplace,” Calif. state agency alleges

27 points by lakis 5y ago

worik 5y ago
I am amazed that these stories from Tesla keep coming out This does not happen to other corporations, with such frequency and seriousness. Is there some sort of reporting bias here? Or is Tesla really a reprobate?
- crate_barre 5y ago
  Elon is an organic target for cancel culture. I say organic because I haven’t been able to theorize how these things are coordinated (the attacks on Joe Rogan all of a sudden). It feels so coordinated but there is simply no central PR agency doing it. So, my best theory is that it’s kinda like the paparazzi. You find the celebrities going through a train wreck life situation (divorce, drugs, etc) and cover them. This organically brings the tabloids to specific targets. Elon is a very natural target. In this case he has taken a strong stance on workers being able to work during Covid, so in a way he put his battle flag up on that hill. That’s the hill the parasites will flock to. Rogan took a stance on free speech. So that’s the hill they fought him on (found all the shit he has to apologize for). The market for this is quite natural at this point, and I have no other words to describe it as repetitious as it is.
  - Gollapalli 5y ago
    US Government actually puts out lists of people who should be banned/marginalized on social media. Almost certainly has similar lists going out to NGO's, many of whose workers also happen to operate prodigiously on social media. It's not explicitly coordinated, so much as nudged and incentivized.
    - DoctorOW 5y ago
      If you're trolling this is pretty funny, if you're serious this is even funnier.
      - ShockTohp 5y ago
        I mean the practice mentioned in the parent post has been common since the McCarthy Era. Gotta keep those commies out of our country somehow /sarc
      - treeman79 5y ago
        Joe Rogan called out lies by the White House press secretary. Now there is a huge effort to cancel him. This is the normal pattern of anyone that crosses the left.
        crate_barre 5y ago
        But unlike shorting a stock and putting hit jobs on a company you want to tank (for profit), or politically utilizing a scapegoats/attack pieces (for winning power), it’s really hard to trace back who gains by subduing Joe Rogan or an Elon Musk. The only thing I can think of is the new corporate diversity/woke organizations that want to cultivate an environment where companies need to pay them to keep things from becoming a PR nightmare (that is a new type of manufactured threat). Organizations haven’t even been effective at coercing companies about global labor practices (Nike’s slave wage factories in China), but somehow this new attack vector of social propriety has been extremely effective. It’s been iteratively effective. Pointing out Nike has 1, then 2, then 3 slave wage factories never escalated the situation. Pointing out Rogan antivax stuff, then the N-word compilation, and perhaps soon that he used steroids, has been hyper effective to reach a knock out blow. By the time we get from ‘Elon’s factories segregates black people’ to the n-th ‘and his ex said he was verbally abusive’, he could be done. Something to keep track of, or certainly pay some people to ward something like that off. That would make the most sense.
        torstenvl 5y ago
        > it’s really hard to trace back who gains by subduing ... Elon Musk https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/ford-motor-co/summary?id=D000000182 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/ford-motor-co/summary?id=D0... https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/general-motors/summary?id=D000000155 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/general-motors/summary?id=D... https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toyota-motor-corp/summary?id=D000030495 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toyota-motor-corp/summary?i... Not particularly hard, as it turns out.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I think there are pretty simple criteria based on what drives viral controversy and "engagement" 1) public figure with household brand 2) controversial statements 3) broad following willing to defend them Going after personalities clearly over the line is of no value. To optimize clicks and engagement, you want the issue at hand to be as contested as possible : topics the public is deeply split on, subjective, complex, and flimsy or poorly articulated. The more misinformation the better, because it drive more engagement as people read and post it both to support their priors or show how outrageous it is. There is a tiny market for comprehensive reporting analyzing issues from multiple perspectives.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    People in the know have known Rogan has flaws for years. I first heard the planet of the apes thing years ago, it's only recently that he's exploded in popularity in the mainstream and started playing knowledge rather than sponge. It's the same way information spreads about anything.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    Also the reason why you can't work out how these things are coordinated is because you don't understand how social media (maybe just the first word) works and are trying to explain away often very justifiable critique raised by people who you disagree with.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Elon Musk has certainly brought his companies into the public interest through his marketing and flamboyant takes on political and social issues. That said, I do think this story is newsworthy based on the severity of the DFEH lawsuit and prior history with the Diaz case. The bigger question is not if there is bias in news reporting, but DFEH action. That is to say, is Tesla actually an outlier in workplace environments or selected based on other criteria.
- DoctorOW 5y ago
  I think it's a little of column A, a little of column B. Column A, because I'll bet it's much harder to find stuff like this on similarly sized companies. Column B because when you do those companies don't market themselves as a billionaire's generous gift to save the world.
- prvc 5y ago
  Musk and Tesla are thorns in the sides of various hegemonic cultural narratives and political agendas.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    Per the lawsuit: As early as 2012, Black and/or African American Tesla workers have complained that Tesla production leads, supervisors, and managers constantly use the n-word and other racial slurs to refer to Black workers. They have complained that swastikas, “KKK,” the n-word, and other racist writing are etched onto walls of restrooms, restroom stalls, lunch tables, and even factory machinery. They have complained that Black and/or African American workers are assigned to more physically demanding posts and the lowest-level contract roles, paid less, and more often terminated from employment than other workers. They have also complained that Black and/or African American workers are often denied advancement opportunities, and more often and more severely disciplined than non-Black workers. So you think the workers who stuck their necks out to file these complaints -- going back as early as 2012, mind you -- have done so to spite Musk for being a thorn in the side of ... "various hegemonic cultural narratives and political agendas"? Or that if a lawsuit of this gravity and nature does get filed against lawsuit -- that the press should keep mum about it?
    - prvc 5y ago
      >So you think the workers who stuck their necks out to file these complaints -- going back as early as 2012, mind you -- have done so to spite Musk for being a thorn in the side of ... "various hegemonic cultural narratives and political agendas"? That absolutely does not follow from my other comment.
      - vanusa 5y ago
        I don't see how else your comment relates to the original article, then. Other than to insinuate that the main reason "these stories from Tesla keep coming out" ... is because Musk is a "thorn in side" of various narratives.
  - ashwagary 5y ago
- hnburnsy 5y ago
  It happens all the time, just hidden behind arbitration, Diaz escaped arbitration as he was sub contracted and Tesla forgot to make subs sign up to arbitration. An expensive lesson.
- LazarWolf_ 5y ago
  The rate of stories increased since Tesla moved its headquarters out of California.
anonAndOn 5y ago
I detect the voice of Elon in this: "Attacking a company like Tesla that has done so much good for California should not be the overriding aim of a state agency with prosecutorial authority," Tesla wrote. "Message received" redux, perhaps? [0] [0]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259638112688304129 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259638112688304129
mrjangles 5y ago
>Tesla's Fremont factory is a racially segregated workplace where Black workers are subjected to racial slurs.... This article doesn't say it, but the last time this came up, in small print, it was admitted that all reported instances of racial slurs were delivered by black people to other black people in a friendly manner.
- Wiseacre 5y ago
  Can you link to that article?
  - mrjangles 5y ago
    I don't suppose you know how to search your own comments do you? I could find it for you if you really wanted because I commented on it the last time it was on the front page (quite a long time ago). I would need instructions on how to search though, no way I could scroll that far back.
    - Wiseacre 5y ago
      Google search your user name and the topic with "site:news.ycombinator.com"
      - mrjangles 5y ago
        Here is the article https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/tesla-must-pay-137-million-to-ex-worker-over-hostile-work-environment-racism.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/tesla-must-pay-137-million-t... relevant line. “In addition to Mr. Diaz, three other witnesses (all non-Tesla contract employees) testified at trial that they regularly heard racial slurs (including the n-word) on the Fremont factory floor. While they all agreed that the use of the n-word was not appropriate in the workplace, they also agreed that most of the time they thought the language was used in a ‘friendly’ manner and usually by African-American colleagues.”
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/ OR logout
vanusa 5y ago
Some background articles on the Diaz case, in which Tesla was ordered to pay $137 million for tolerating a hostile, racist environment (by the jury's determination). And no, this was not a matter of "racial slurs delivered by black people to other black people in a friendly manner" (per the sibling comment). Jury orders Tesla to pay $137 million to former employee over racist treatment https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/business/tesla-racism-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/business/tesla-racism-law... https://archive.fo/2fbLc https://archive.fo/2fbLc Menial tasks, slurs and swastikas: many black workers at Tesla say they faced racism https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/business/tesla-factory-racism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/business/tesla-factory-ra... https://archive.fo/KGXEK https://archive.fo/KGXEK
hnburnsy 5y ago
Lawsuit... https://www.scribd.com/document/558134699/California-Department-of-Fair-Employment-and-Housing-v-Tesla-Inc#from_embed https://www.scribd.com/document/558134699/California-Departm...
- vanusa 5y ago
  This item, if verified, will be particularly damning for Tesla: Specifically, DFEH invited Tesla to participate in a mediation session with the department’s internal dispute resolution division on January 12 and 20, 2022, but Tesla refused to attend until February 8, 2022. As it not only indicates that the compulsory "mediation" process is basically a sham (as these things always are), but that Tesla knowingly and willfully refused to take action that might have addressed the concerns raised by the plaintiffs. So they were forced to bring this suit, in other words.

27 points by lakis 5y ago

I am amazed that these stories from Tesla keep coming out This does not happen to other corporations, with such frequency and seriousness. Is there some sort of reporting bias here? Or is Tesla really a reprobate?

crate_barre 5y ago
Elon is an organic target for cancel culture. I say organic because I haven’t been able to theorize how these things are coordinated (the attacks on Joe Rogan all of a sudden). It feels so coordinated but there is simply no central PR agency doing it. So, my best theory is that it’s kinda like the paparazzi. You find the celebrities going through a train wreck life situation (divorce, drugs, etc) and cover them. This organically brings the tabloids to specific targets. Elon is a very natural target. In this case he has taken a strong stance on workers being able to work during Covid, so in a way he put his battle flag up on that hill. That’s the hill the parasites will flock to. Rogan took a stance on free speech. So that’s the hill they fought him on (found all the shit he has to apologize for). The market for this is quite natural at this point, and I have no other words to describe it as repetitious as it is.
- Gollapalli 5y ago
  US Government actually puts out lists of people who should be banned/marginalized on social media. Almost certainly has similar lists going out to NGO's, many of whose workers also happen to operate prodigiously on social media. It's not explicitly coordinated, so much as nudged and incentivized.
  - DoctorOW 5y ago
    If you're trolling this is pretty funny, if you're serious this is even funnier.
    - ShockTohp 5y ago
      I mean the practice mentioned in the parent post has been common since the McCarthy Era. Gotta keep those commies out of our country somehow /sarc
    - treeman79 5y ago
      Joe Rogan called out lies by the White House press secretary. Now there is a huge effort to cancel him. This is the normal pattern of anyone that crosses the left.
      - crate_barre 5y ago
        But unlike shorting a stock and putting hit jobs on a company you want to tank (for profit), or politically utilizing a scapegoats/attack pieces (for winning power), it’s really hard to trace back who gains by subduing Joe Rogan or an Elon Musk. The only thing I can think of is the new corporate diversity/woke organizations that want to cultivate an environment where companies need to pay them to keep things from becoming a PR nightmare (that is a new type of manufactured threat). Organizations haven’t even been effective at coercing companies about global labor practices (Nike’s slave wage factories in China), but somehow this new attack vector of social propriety has been extremely effective. It’s been iteratively effective. Pointing out Nike has 1, then 2, then 3 slave wage factories never escalated the situation. Pointing out Rogan antivax stuff, then the N-word compilation, and perhaps soon that he used steroids, has been hyper effective to reach a knock out blow. By the time we get from ‘Elon’s factories segregates black people’ to the n-th ‘and his ex said he was verbally abusive’, he could be done. Something to keep track of, or certainly pay some people to ward something like that off. That would make the most sense.
        torstenvl 5y ago
        > it’s really hard to trace back who gains by subduing ... Elon Musk https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/ford-motor-co/summary?id=D000000182 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/ford-motor-co/summary?id=D0... https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/general-motors/summary?id=D000000155 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/general-motors/summary?id=D... https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toyota-motor-corp/summary?id=D000030495 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toyota-motor-corp/summary?i... Not particularly hard, as it turns out.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I think there are pretty simple criteria based on what drives viral controversy and "engagement" 1) public figure with household brand 2) controversial statements 3) broad following willing to defend them Going after personalities clearly over the line is of no value. To optimize clicks and engagement, you want the issue at hand to be as contested as possible : topics the public is deeply split on, subjective, complex, and flimsy or poorly articulated. The more misinformation the better, because it drive more engagement as people read and post it both to support their priors or show how outrageous it is. There is a tiny market for comprehensive reporting analyzing issues from multiple perspectives.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  People in the know have known Rogan has flaws for years. I first heard the planet of the apes thing years ago, it's only recently that he's exploded in popularity in the mainstream and started playing knowledge rather than sponge. It's the same way information spreads about anything.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Also the reason why you can't work out how these things are coordinated is because you don't understand how social media (maybe just the first word) works and are trying to explain away often very justifiable critique raised by people who you disagree with.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
Elon Musk has certainly brought his companies into the public interest through his marketing and flamboyant takes on political and social issues. That said, I do think this story is newsworthy based on the severity of the DFEH lawsuit and prior history with the Diaz case. The bigger question is not if there is bias in news reporting, but DFEH action. That is to say, is Tesla actually an outlier in workplace environments or selected based on other criteria.
DoctorOW 5y ago
I think it's a little of column A, a little of column B. Column A, because I'll bet it's much harder to find stuff like this on similarly sized companies. Column B because when you do those companies don't market themselves as a billionaire's generous gift to save the world.
prvc 5y ago
Musk and Tesla are thorns in the sides of various hegemonic cultural narratives and political agendas.
- vanusa 5y ago
  Per the lawsuit: As early as 2012, Black and/or African American Tesla workers have complained that Tesla production leads, supervisors, and managers constantly use the n-word and other racial slurs to refer to Black workers. They have complained that swastikas, “KKK,” the n-word, and other racist writing are etched onto walls of restrooms, restroom stalls, lunch tables, and even factory machinery. They have complained that Black and/or African American workers are assigned to more physically demanding posts and the lowest-level contract roles, paid less, and more often terminated from employment than other workers. They have also complained that Black and/or African American workers are often denied advancement opportunities, and more often and more severely disciplined than non-Black workers. So you think the workers who stuck their necks out to file these complaints -- going back as early as 2012, mind you -- have done so to spite Musk for being a thorn in the side of ... "various hegemonic cultural narratives and political agendas"? Or that if a lawsuit of this gravity and nature does get filed against lawsuit -- that the press should keep mum about it?
  - prvc 5y ago
    >So you think the workers who stuck their necks out to file these complaints -- going back as early as 2012, mind you -- have done so to spite Musk for being a thorn in the side of ... "various hegemonic cultural narratives and political agendas"? That absolutely does not follow from my other comment.
    - vanusa 5y ago
      I don't see how else your comment relates to the original article, then. Other than to insinuate that the main reason "these stories from Tesla keep coming out" ... is because Musk is a "thorn in side" of various narratives.
- ashwagary 5y ago
hnburnsy 5y ago
It happens all the time, just hidden behind arbitration, Diaz escaped arbitration as he was sub contracted and Tesla forgot to make subs sign up to arbitration. An expensive lesson.
LazarWolf_ 5y ago
The rate of stories increased since Tesla moved its headquarters out of California.

anonAndOn 5y ago

I detect the voice of Elon in this: "Attacking a company like Tesla that has done so much good for California should not be the overriding aim of a state agency with prosecutorial authority," Tesla wrote. "Message received" redux, perhaps? [0] [0]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259638112688304129 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259638112688304129

mrjangles 5y ago

>Tesla's Fremont factory is a racially segregated workplace where Black workers are subjected to racial slurs.... This article doesn't say it, but the last time this came up, in small print, it was admitted that all reported instances of racial slurs were delivered by black people to other black people in a friendly manner.

Wiseacre 5y ago
Can you link to that article?
- mrjangles 5y ago
  I don't suppose you know how to search your own comments do you? I could find it for you if you really wanted because I commented on it the last time it was on the front page (quite a long time ago). I would need instructions on how to search though, no way I could scroll that far back.
  - Wiseacre 5y ago
    Google search your user name and the topic with "site:news.ycombinator.com"
    - mrjangles 5y ago
      Here is the article https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/tesla-must-pay-137-million-to-ex-worker-over-hostile-work-environment-racism.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/tesla-must-pay-137-million-t... relevant line. “In addition to Mr. Diaz, three other witnesses (all non-Tesla contract employees) testified at trial that they regularly heard racial slurs (including the n-word) on the Fremont factory floor. While they all agreed that the use of the n-word was not appropriate in the workplace, they also agreed that most of the time they thought the language was used in a ‘friendly’ manner and usually by African-American colleagues.”
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/ OR logout

vanusa 5y ago

Some background articles on the Diaz case, in which Tesla was ordered to pay $137 million for tolerating a hostile, racist environment (by the jury's determination). And no, this was not a matter of "racial slurs delivered by black people to other black people in a friendly manner" (per the sibling comment). Jury orders Tesla to pay $137 million to former employee over racist treatment https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/business/tesla-racism-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/business/tesla-racism-law... https://archive.fo/2fbLc https://archive.fo/2fbLc Menial tasks, slurs and swastikas: many black workers at Tesla say they faced racism https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/business/tesla-factory-racism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/business/tesla-factory-ra... https://archive.fo/KGXEK https://archive.fo/KGXEK

hnburnsy 5y ago

Lawsuit... https://www.scribd.com/document/558134699/California-Department-of-Fair-Employment-and-Housing-v-Tesla-Inc#from_embed https://www.scribd.com/document/558134699/California-Departm...

vanusa 5y ago
This item, if verified, will be particularly damning for Tesla: Specifically, DFEH invited Tesla to participate in a mediation session with the department’s internal dispute resolution division on January 12 and 20, 2022, but Tesla refused to attend until February 8, 2022. As it not only indicates that the compulsory "mediation" process is basically a sham (as these things always are), but that Tesla knowingly and willfully refused to take action that might have addressed the concerns raised by the plaintiffs. So they were forced to bring this suit, in other words.