3 ms·

>believes certain races are less intelligent than others because of their race. He went to Stanford and has no other conservative views That isn't a conservati

by yucky 5y ago

>believes certain races are less intelligent than others because of their race. He went to Stanford and has no other conservative views That isn't a conservative view though.

smt88 5y ago
> That isn't a conservative view though. It is in the US[1] and every other country I know of. But let's define "conservative" first. According to Dictionary.com, it means: > "disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change."[2] Or to put it another way: to be conservative is to want to maintain the status quo or even return to the past. And what is eugenics? It is an idea of the past. If you have a different definition of liberal or conservative, or you can find research that shows that conservatives have less negative views of the intelligence of non-European people, I would be interested to see it. Even common phrases -- "progressive" vs. "traditional" views on race -- are used as euphemisms, where "traditional views" are more prejudiced. This is why people talk about their racist grandmother and not their racist grandson. It is also why older people are more likely to see increasing racial diversity in the US as a bad thing[3], compared to other age groups. Old people are also more traditional, more conservative, and more Republican, on average. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/the-gap-between-republicans-and-democrats-views-of-african-americans-just-hit-a-new-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/th... 2. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conservative https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conservative 3. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/23/most-americans-say-the-declining-share-of-white-people-in-the-u-s-is-neither-good-nor-bad-for-society/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/23/most-americ...
- yucky 5y ago
  > "progressive" vs. "traditional" views on race -- are used as euphemisms, where "traditional views" are more prejudiced That's not true though. Allow me to demonstrate. Ask any progressive the following question: Do you think the government and educational institutions should treat people differently based on the color of their skin - yes or no? Now watch that progressive either a)change the subject and evade answering the question.. or b)Justify their reasoning for why they think people should be treated differently based on their skin color. This is (by definition) support of racial discrimination. Many progressives have even gone so far as to claim the concept of racial equality is not progressive, demanding instead policies that seek to achieve racial equity, a concept that requires racial discrimination to implement. So progressives literally support polices that require racial preferences/prejudice. As to conservatives, they support equal treatment under the law regardless of race. At worst you could accuse some of supporting polices that could potentially have disparate impact. But progressives support actual racial discrimination. Which is worse, in your mind?
  - smt88 5y ago
    > So progressives literally support polices that require racial preferences/prejudice. Racial preferences/prejudice != eugenics. They're different concepts. You can say that both are forms of racism, but this thread was original about eugenics. You are describing affirmative action, which I have not said is a conservative idea (because it isn't). > Now watch that progressive either a)change the subject and evade answering the question.. or b)Justify their reasoning for why they think people should be treated differently based on their skin color. While I don't agree with affirmative action, you're intentionally misconstruing the actual argument for it. The argument is: we can observe racial bias in society, and we can use institutions to compensate for it. > As to conservatives, they support equal treatment under the law regardless of race. At worst you could accuse some of supporting polices that could potentially have disparate impact. I could accuse conservative leaders of intentionally creating policies that have disparate impact[1]. I don't think most conservative voters are on board with it, but it's a massive problem with conservative leadership in the US. > But progressives support actual racial discrimination. Which is worse, in your mind? This is completely, utterly off-topic, but I'll respond anyway: Both are bad and unacceptable. Conservative policies are, in effect, worse. The racism wasn't always open or public, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. It was explicitly stated behind closed doors and in documents[1][2]. Conservative policies that criminalized behaviors associated with black people -- like using marijuana, loitering, tinting car windows, etc. -- have destroyed the lives of tens of millions of people. Affirmative action hasn't done that. And what about the black people who weren't put in jail for being poor? Conservative policies openly discriminated against black people on the basis of race until 1968[3], and they have had a deep effect on generational wealth (and well-being) of Americans in the decades since then. Conservatives were pro-slavery, pro-segregation, and pro-war on drugs. The KKK was a conservative organization, not a progressive one -- and modern conservatives are still using their slogan today[4]. Conservatives give harsher sentences to black people than to white people for the same crimes[5]. There is no reasonable argument based on historical evidence that a few decades of affirmative action can outweigh hundreds of years of grinding people into the dirt, including chattel slavery and mass incarceration for victimless crime. It's why black people overwhelming vote against Republicans, even though many of them are fiscally and socially conservative[6]. 1. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-files-of-the-master-of-modern-republican-gerrymandering https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-files-of... 2. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-story-behind-nixons-war-on-drugs-that-targeted-blacks-and-anti-war-activists/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st... 3. https://www.bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1934-1968-FHA-Redlining.html https://www.bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1934-1968-FHA-Red... 4. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/ku-klux-klan-stages-an-america-first-parade-in-binghamton-news-photo/514702614 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/ku-klux-klan-s... 5. https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2021/08/10/courts-in-more-republican-leaning-counties-sentence-black-individuals-to-longer-prison-terms-than-white-individuals/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2021/08/10/courts-in-more-... 6. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/27/5-facts-about-black-democrats/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/27/5-facts-abo...

by yucky 5y ago

>believes certain races are less intelligent than others because of their race. He went to Stanford and has no other conservative views That isn't a conservative view though.

smt88 5y ago

> That isn't a conservative view though. It is in the US[1] and every other country I know of. But let's define "conservative" first. According to Dictionary.com, it means: > "disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change."[2] Or to put it another way: to be conservative is to want to maintain the status quo or even return to the past. And what is eugenics? It is an idea of the past. If you have a different definition of liberal or conservative, or you can find research that shows that conservatives have less negative views of the intelligence of non-European people, I would be interested to see it. Even common phrases -- "progressive" vs. "traditional" views on race -- are used as euphemisms, where "traditional views" are more prejudiced. This is why people talk about their racist grandmother and not their racist grandson. It is also why older people are more likely to see increasing racial diversity in the US as a bad thing[3], compared to other age groups. Old people are also more traditional, more conservative, and more Republican, on average. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/the-gap-between-republicans-and-democrats-views-of-african-americans-just-hit-a-new-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/th... 2. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conservative https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conservative 3. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/23/most-americans-say-the-declining-share-of-white-people-in-the-u-s-is-neither-good-nor-bad-for-society/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/23/most-americ...

yucky 5y ago
> "progressive" vs. "traditional" views on race -- are used as euphemisms, where "traditional views" are more prejudiced That's not true though. Allow me to demonstrate. Ask any progressive the following question: Do you think the government and educational institutions should treat people differently based on the color of their skin - yes or no? Now watch that progressive either a)change the subject and evade answering the question.. or b)Justify their reasoning for why they think people should be treated differently based on their skin color. This is (by definition) support of racial discrimination. Many progressives have even gone so far as to claim the concept of racial equality is not progressive, demanding instead policies that seek to achieve racial equity, a concept that requires racial discrimination to implement. So progressives literally support polices that require racial preferences/prejudice. As to conservatives, they support equal treatment under the law regardless of race. At worst you could accuse some of supporting polices that could potentially have disparate impact. But progressives support actual racial discrimination. Which is worse, in your mind?
- smt88 5y ago
  > So progressives literally support polices that require racial preferences/prejudice. Racial preferences/prejudice != eugenics. They're different concepts. You can say that both are forms of racism, but this thread was original about eugenics. You are describing affirmative action, which I have not said is a conservative idea (because it isn't). > Now watch that progressive either a)change the subject and evade answering the question.. or b)Justify their reasoning for why they think people should be treated differently based on their skin color. While I don't agree with affirmative action, you're intentionally misconstruing the actual argument for it. The argument is: we can observe racial bias in society, and we can use institutions to compensate for it. > As to conservatives, they support equal treatment under the law regardless of race. At worst you could accuse some of supporting polices that could potentially have disparate impact. I could accuse conservative leaders of intentionally creating policies that have disparate impact[1]. I don't think most conservative voters are on board with it, but it's a massive problem with conservative leadership in the US. > But progressives support actual racial discrimination. Which is worse, in your mind? This is completely, utterly off-topic, but I'll respond anyway: Both are bad and unacceptable. Conservative policies are, in effect, worse. The racism wasn't always open or public, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. It was explicitly stated behind closed doors and in documents[1][2]. Conservative policies that criminalized behaviors associated with black people -- like using marijuana, loitering, tinting car windows, etc. -- have destroyed the lives of tens of millions of people. Affirmative action hasn't done that. And what about the black people who weren't put in jail for being poor? Conservative policies openly discriminated against black people on the basis of race until 1968[3], and they have had a deep effect on generational wealth (and well-being) of Americans in the decades since then. Conservatives were pro-slavery, pro-segregation, and pro-war on drugs. The KKK was a conservative organization, not a progressive one -- and modern conservatives are still using their slogan today[4]. Conservatives give harsher sentences to black people than to white people for the same crimes[5]. There is no reasonable argument based on historical evidence that a few decades of affirmative action can outweigh hundreds of years of grinding people into the dirt, including chattel slavery and mass incarceration for victimless crime. It's why black people overwhelming vote against Republicans, even though many of them are fiscally and socially conservative[6]. 1. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-files-of-the-master-of-modern-republican-gerrymandering https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-files-of... 2. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-story-behind-nixons-war-on-drugs-that-targeted-blacks-and-anti-war-activists/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st... 3. https://www.bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1934-1968-FHA-Redlining.html https://www.bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1934-1968-FHA-Red... 4. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/ku-klux-klan-stages-an-america-first-parade-in-binghamton-news-photo/514702614 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/ku-klux-klan-s... 5. https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2021/08/10/courts-in-more-republican-leaning-counties-sentence-black-individuals-to-longer-prison-terms-than-white-individuals/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2021/08/10/courts-in-more-... 6. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/27/5-facts-about-black-democrats/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/27/5-facts-abo...