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Well if we're going to anecdata, I've held jobs where I started as 'associate' and was promoted to something resembling 'software engineer.' Similarly, in the o

Well if we're going to anecdata, I've held jobs where I started as 'associate' and was promoted to something resembling 'software engineer.' Similarly, in the one where they liked to refer to everyone as associates, that was never a term used in any of the contracts which needed to actually use the word that defines someone as being employed by the company -- employee. I think some of the blowback you and others are getting for saying 'associate is just employee' is because to many people, 'associate' does have a negative connotation compared to 'employee', and Apple has a history of being hostile to labour; Not to mention that if they really wanted to protect privacy, they could just do what most companies do -- confirm dates of employment, and possibly if they're re-hirable at Apple. Its not unfair to assume Apple isn't doing this out of the benevolence of their hearts.

hammock 5y ago
What are you considering anecdata? The US's two largest employers (Walmart and Amazon) and Marriott use "associates." Target, Hilton, Qdoba and other companies use "team members." Starbucks uses "partners." Hyatt uses "colleagues." Cabela's uses "outfitters." Cringe for sure, but not using "employee" is more common than many think. I certainly understand that this context may be less familiar than the different use of "associate" at perhaps the more familiar VC firm or law firm, retail store, etc. But it's my educated guess that this former context is the one in which Apple is using associate.
- genocidicbunny 5y ago
  Do these companies consistently use associates, or is there a division between say hourly and salary, or retail vs back-office employees? (I am specifically excluding things like directory and C-level positions because those tend to be much more specialized contracts.) For example, Trader Joe's has Crew Members for the average retail workers, and Mates/Captain for the manager level. Just the titles alone implied a hierarchy. Does Amazon call their SDEs and SREs associates as well? If not, then they're still setting up a pecking order. (As an aside, I can accept calling your employees associates, or something cute like colleagues or outfitters, depending on the nature of the business. But Starbucks calling their employees partners rubs me the wrong way. That one does just seem like gaslighting.)
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I work for a moderately large software company. We absolutely refer to everyone as associates if we're referring to everyone who works for the company. (Naturally everyone has specific titles as well, which may not be what they refer to themselves on their business cards/at conferences/Linkedin/etc.)
    - genocidicbunny 5y ago
      With your company, if a potential employer called up and asked what my job title was (and lets assume your company would give out that info) would they say what my job title was, or would they say I'm an associate?
      - ghaff 5y ago
        I have no idea what our HR would give out if someone called to verify I worked there. I would actually have to look up my official HR level anyway as it's something I never use and wouldn't put on a resume anyway.

hammock 5y ago

What are you considering anecdata? The US's two largest employers (Walmart and Amazon) and Marriott use "associates." Target, Hilton, Qdoba and other companies use "team members." Starbucks uses "partners." Hyatt uses "colleagues." Cabela's uses "outfitters." Cringe for sure, but not using "employee" is more common than many think. I certainly understand that this context may be less familiar than the different use of "associate" at perhaps the more familiar VC firm or law firm, retail store, etc. But it's my educated guess that this former context is the one in which Apple is using associate.

genocidicbunny 5y ago
Do these companies consistently use associates, or is there a division between say hourly and salary, or retail vs back-office employees? (I am specifically excluding things like directory and C-level positions because those tend to be much more specialized contracts.) For example, Trader Joe's has Crew Members for the average retail workers, and Mates/Captain for the manager level. Just the titles alone implied a hierarchy. Does Amazon call their SDEs and SREs associates as well? If not, then they're still setting up a pecking order. (As an aside, I can accept calling your employees associates, or something cute like colleagues or outfitters, depending on the nature of the business. But Starbucks calling their employees partners rubs me the wrong way. That one does just seem like gaslighting.)
- ghaff 5y ago
  I work for a moderately large software company. We absolutely refer to everyone as associates if we're referring to everyone who works for the company. (Naturally everyone has specific titles as well, which may not be what they refer to themselves on their business cards/at conferences/Linkedin/etc.)
  - genocidicbunny 5y ago
    With your company, if a potential employer called up and asked what my job title was (and lets assume your company would give out that info) would they say what my job title was, or would they say I'm an associate?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I have no idea what our HR would give out if someone called to verify I worked there. I would actually have to look up my official HR level anyway as it's something I never use and wouldn't put on a resume anyway.