3 ms·

I believe what I'm saying is the same thing and you are mis-reading. > A laptop that has a mouse and a touch-screen will in some cases NOT be detected as a tou

I believe what I'm saying is the same thing and you are mis-reading. > A laptop that has a mouse and a touch-screen will in some cases NOT be detected as a touch screen You see the "NOT" in all capitals? "NOT be detected as a touch screen". I said: > A laptop that has a mouse and a touch-screen will in some cases NOT be detected as a touch screen. That is the same thing, is it not? Which is the same thing as you quoted from the spec. > For example, on a touch screen device that can also be controlled by an optional mouse, the `hover` media feature should match `hover: none`, as the primary pointing device (the touch screen) does not allow the user to hover. Right, so such devices will be detected as "NOT a touch screen". I feel like I'm agreeing with the spec and agreeing with micromacrofoot, but you are for some reason still reading it in reverse. If you detect something with both touch and a mouse as "NOT touch", and then deliver a UI optimized for "NOT touch", this is NOT "erring on the side of keeping things usable for touch input". But this is now a super boring conversation! If this super boring pedantic explication doesn't get us anywhere else, nothing will, I give up!

lelandfe 5y ago
Hey, no worries, it's not boring! Specs are just hard to parse. Pedantic is the name of the game with W3 :) > Right, so such devices will be detected as "NOT a touch screen". `hover: none` means it's a touch screen. The idea being that the device shouldn't expect hover inputs. Hence "touch devices with a dedicated mouse can be detected as no-hover devices" Paraphrased, the bit of the spec I quoted says "even if a touch laptop has a mouse, `hover: none` will still match". Here's a quick fiddle to show: https://jsfiddle.net/b2f69uya/ https://jsfiddle.net/b2f69uya/ Ultimately: if you have a touch control as a device's primary input, there's a guarantee that `hover: none` will be satisfied.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  oh gosh, I see. I'm so confused now I don't even know what I'm talking about, ok!
  - lelandfe 5y ago
    It's not you - naming things is hard! I definitely had to reread that line in the spec a bunch to get it as well. Cheers!

lelandfe 5y ago

Hey, no worries, it's not boring! Specs are just hard to parse. Pedantic is the name of the game with W3 :) > Right, so such devices will be detected as "NOT a touch screen". `hover: none` means it's a touch screen. The idea being that the device shouldn't expect hover inputs. Hence "touch devices with a dedicated mouse can be detected as no-hover devices" Paraphrased, the bit of the spec I quoted says "even if a touch laptop has a mouse, `hover: none` will still match". Here's a quick fiddle to show: https://jsfiddle.net/b2f69uya/ https://jsfiddle.net/b2f69uya/ Ultimately: if you have a touch control as a device's primary input, there's a guarantee that `hover: none` will be satisfied.

jrochkind1 5y ago
oh gosh, I see. I'm so confused now I don't even know what I'm talking about, ok!
- lelandfe 5y ago
  It's not you - naming things is hard! I definitely had to reread that line in the spec a bunch to get it as well. Cheers!