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I don't think this argument works. The acceptable price for a good is not actually clear cut. "True" market value is an equilibrium price between supply and dem

I don't think this argument works. The acceptable price for a good is not actually clear cut. "True" market value is an equilibrium price between supply and demand. Both the supply and the demand will fluctuate and change over time, with many underlying factors influencing the aggregate number. The acceptable price is also different for different buyers, and in different regions. Advertising is just one of the factors that may affect demand alongside many others. Additionally, you can argue there are many buyer's counterparts to advertising. At its most simple, the buyer has many tools to find items they want, i.e. search engines, etc. Additionally the buyer in many cases can inform the seller of an offer (generally below their desired pricing) and the seller can choose to accept or not. In some marketplaces, the buyer can effectively put out a request-to-buy, e.g. an open offer that many potential sellers can see and one may choose to fulfill.

WalterBright 5y ago
The buyer often may not know a product even exists that would fill his need. For example, my car's cooling system was leaking. I had a devil of a time trying to figure out where it was leaking. It turns out there's a perfect product for it - a device that pumps air into the radiator. You spray some soapy water around, and where it bubbles is where the leak is. So in 5 minutes I could have found the leak, rather than wasting a great deal of time because I did not know such a tool existed.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  That's not a point in favor of advertising, it's a point for the lack of general education around maintenance or mechanical devices among the population. Using pressurized air and soapy water to find leaks in things is a well known technique among those who regularly have to find leaks in things. I'm sure there was a point in the past where something like this would have been taught in school in a classroom that had all kinds of tools and machinery in it.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I took auto shop in high school.
  - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
    I think that's hanging onto the example the OP gave a little too closely. I found out about the company I've bought several sets of sheets from because they were a podcast sponsor, I happened to need sheets, and I liked their designs more than other ones I was seeing at comparable prices. If I hadn't heard that ad, would I have still found sheets I liked? Maybe! But is that really a convincing moral argument against those ads?
    - nkrisc 5y ago
      That’s the thing, there’s no line between what’s an ad and what’s just informational. Somewhere between “Joe’s Sheet Emporium down on Main sells Egyptian cotton sheets” and psychologist-engineered gambling ads there’sa boundary that’s crossed, but I don’t know how you can quantify that, but I know the latter end of the spectrum is wrong. Unfortunately it’s kind of a matter of “I’ll know it when I see it”.
      - dragonsky67 5y ago
        I'm thinking of the classified ads that used to be in the back of gaming magazines. There would be pages of small print only black and white listings of everything from miniatures to game supplements that you could purchase by mailing the given address. You had to go looking for them. In the front of the Mag between the articles you would have full page colour ads, some with skimpily dressed women selling boxed games, computer games etc. In some of the mags, some of the articles were reviews of products, some of these reviews were obviously promotions, very much trying to sell the product. Very few were critical of the product under review. There is a continuum in advertising from simple "this product exists" to "Will change your life". Far to many of the adverts we see today tend to the targeted "change your life" category. Add to that that many of the ads on the internet have there own tracking built in that allows your existence to become a product that is sold without your knowledge or consent and you have a situation that has a bunch of moral questions to answer. [edit spelling]
pixl97 5y ago
Eh, there is a wide area here. For example there is abusive vs non-abusive advertising. Selling = Sofa is $999 and that is a good price for a good couch. Abusive advertising = This sofa is so wonderful that hot women are going to seek you out to have sex with you. When advertizging starts selling lifestyles is where it becomes abuse.

WalterBright 5y ago

The buyer often may not know a product even exists that would fill his need. For example, my car's cooling system was leaking. I had a devil of a time trying to figure out where it was leaking. It turns out there's a perfect product for it - a device that pumps air into the radiator. You spray some soapy water around, and where it bubbles is where the leak is. So in 5 minutes I could have found the leak, rather than wasting a great deal of time because I did not know such a tool existed.

nkrisc 5y ago
That's not a point in favor of advertising, it's a point for the lack of general education around maintenance or mechanical devices among the population. Using pressurized air and soapy water to find leaks in things is a well known technique among those who regularly have to find leaks in things. I'm sure there was a point in the past where something like this would have been taught in school in a classroom that had all kinds of tools and machinery in it.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I took auto shop in high school.
- chipotle_coyote 5y ago
  I think that's hanging onto the example the OP gave a little too closely. I found out about the company I've bought several sets of sheets from because they were a podcast sponsor, I happened to need sheets, and I liked their designs more than other ones I was seeing at comparable prices. If I hadn't heard that ad, would I have still found sheets I liked? Maybe! But is that really a convincing moral argument against those ads?
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    That’s the thing, there’s no line between what’s an ad and what’s just informational. Somewhere between “Joe’s Sheet Emporium down on Main sells Egyptian cotton sheets” and psychologist-engineered gambling ads there’sa boundary that’s crossed, but I don’t know how you can quantify that, but I know the latter end of the spectrum is wrong. Unfortunately it’s kind of a matter of “I’ll know it when I see it”.
    - dragonsky67 5y ago
      I'm thinking of the classified ads that used to be in the back of gaming magazines. There would be pages of small print only black and white listings of everything from miniatures to game supplements that you could purchase by mailing the given address. You had to go looking for them. In the front of the Mag between the articles you would have full page colour ads, some with skimpily dressed women selling boxed games, computer games etc. In some of the mags, some of the articles were reviews of products, some of these reviews were obviously promotions, very much trying to sell the product. Very few were critical of the product under review. There is a continuum in advertising from simple "this product exists" to "Will change your life". Far to many of the adverts we see today tend to the targeted "change your life" category. Add to that that many of the ads on the internet have there own tracking built in that allows your existence to become a product that is sold without your knowledge or consent and you have a situation that has a bunch of moral questions to answer. [edit spelling]

pixl97 5y ago

Eh, there is a wide area here. For example there is abusive vs non-abusive advertising. Selling = Sofa is $999 and that is a good price for a good couch. Abusive advertising = This sofa is so wonderful that hot women are going to seek you out to have sex with you. When advertizging starts selling lifestyles is where it becomes abuse.