7 ms·

California sues Tesla over ‘racial segregation’ claims at factory

djohnston 5y ago
> Diaz was awarded $6.9m in damages for emotional distress and $130m in punitive damages, in what is believed to be the largest such verdict of its kind. :O You would think they would be super sensitive to these claims after shelling out 130M for this.
- mlindner 5y ago
  The lawsuit is about claims that happened between 2015 and 2019 so probably the same people. Also that other lawsuit isn't settled and is still being tried in court. The lowest court ruled that but it's currently under appeal and very likely to be lowered or reversed.
cloutchaser 5y ago
This has nothing to do of course with Musk being quite visibly resistant to aggressive far-left tactics, and standing up to political rhetoric vs Sanders and Warren. No, not a power game at all. With the world we live in, and the high profile of Tesla, not to mention their great record on LGBT rights in the past, I literally find it impossible to believe this. Widespread racial segregation? Like which company would create it's own suicide by doing this? In Silicon valley, california, the most "progressive" place on earth? Which company or HR deparment in 2022 isn't terrified of even a hint of racism, and would jump and correcting it. This is a hit job to show a rebel who's boss. Just like the wave after wave of attempts to get Rogan off Spotify.
- advisedwang 5y ago
  > I literally find it impossible to believe this According to the article, there were hundreds of complaints from workers. But based on reputation you are willing to disbelieve them all and conclude that the state shouldn't follow up?
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    There is a difference between people complaining about other worker making comments and implementing racial segregation. Its hard to believe that a car plant in California was more racist then all those in the South.
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      >Its hard to believe that a car plant in California was more racist then all those in the South. If it's run like an apartheid South African company, I dont find it hard to believe.
  - SllX 5y ago
    At this point I’ll believe a court of law, at the conclusion of the trial.
  - cloutchaser 5y ago
    > Diaz was awarded $6.9m in damages for emotional distress and $130m in punitive damages, in what is believed to be the largest such verdict of its kind. If I heard my company just did that, I'd make damn sure I'd have something to file a complaint about too.
    - Drblessing 5y ago
      > Financial motive > Political motive Certainly will raise doubts in the mind of any rational thinker.
  - tim333 5y ago
    Tesla respond quite well in their blog: >Over the past five years, the DFEH has been asked on almost 50 occasions by individuals who believe they were discriminated against or harassed to investigate Tesla. On every single occasion, when the DFEH closed an investigation, it did not find misconduct against Tesla. It therefore strains credibility for the agency to now allege, after a three-year investigation, that systematic racial discrimination and harassment somehow existed at Tesla. and similar.
- klyrs 5y ago
  > ...not to mention their great record on LGBT rights in the past, I literally find it impossible to believe this. It is a mistake to view all social issues as a monolith. In the US, the Women's Suffrage movement rather famously had a single-minded focus on getting white women the vote. Personally, I've met quite a few openly and unapologetically homophobic black people, as well as openly "I'm-not-racist-but"-anti-black gay people. That a company would try (and even succeed) along one axis and completely fail at another one isn't a surprise. Concluding that this is a hit job assumes that Tesla is perfectly progressive (Musk is pretty vocally anti-progressive) both in its goals (company-level policies) and its actions (hierarchical manager-level fiefdoms). It sure sounds like individuals with enough evidence to make a case have a financial incentive to bring that evidence to the courts, though. I don't see that as a bad thing.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    IIRC, some far-left African American groups were working with the KKK to promote the "Back to Africa" movement through the civil rights era. I forget if it was the Black Panthers or Black Hebrew Israelites / Black Zionists or something along those lines... but there's a significant amount of uncomfortable overlap there. ------- There's also the famous pact between Hitler (far right Fascism) and Stalin (far left Communism). Some people like to say that the left-right spectrum is a horseshoe. The far-left and the far-right start to get similar ideas and the "spectrum" bends back around like a horseshoe, meeting back in the middle. In many ways, its the moderates who disagree on the most number of subjects. And while the language of the extremists (either left or right) are different, the extremists are more alike than their philosophies seem to indicate.
    - scotuswroteus 5y ago
    - irthomasthomas 5y ago
      Yes, the differences between fascism and communism are mostly ideological and academic. To the people living under them it's the same experience. Sacrificing oneself for the good of the nation/party/body. People make the mistake of thinking capitalism is incompatible with communism, but that is false. Marx wrote a lot about the role of technology in wealth creation. He thought that it would be technology that would bring abundance and set man free, and the best technologists where the free-market-capitalists. Marx also said something along the lines that capitalism, unchecked, was bound to become centralised and monopolised, creating the necessary conditions for the revolutionary transfer to totalitarian dictatorship of the proletariat.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  Warren and Sanders are centrists. Centre-right and centre-left respectively.
  - deburo 5y ago
    Warren labeled a centrist is pretty rich considering she keeps yelling at clouds about corporate greed (her explanation for inflation)
    - lucian1900 5y ago
      That’s what centrists tend to say, yes. Compromise between capitalists and workers. Someone on the left might speak about trade unions, collectivising industry, arming workers, etc.
      - deburo 5y ago
        https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/elizabeth-warren/ https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-t... Is that center right?
        lucian1900 5y ago
        Yes, quite literally Bonapartist compromise between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.
      - nailer 5y ago
        Compromise between business owners and workers. Workers are often capitalists. But yes that’s correct.
        lucian1900 5y ago
        Capitalists, otherwise known as the bourgeoisie, make money from owning capital. Workers, otherwise known as the proletariat, make money from their own labour. Workers are by definition not capitalists.
- prvc 5y ago
  Relatedly, what one might call "climate policy proponents" tend to hate and criticize Musk and Tesla above all others, which is strange considering the tremendous positive impact he has enacted precisely in reducing carbon dependence and transitioning humanity to green technology.
  - cloutchaser 5y ago
    Conflict is a lot more likely when people are similar but have minor differences, than when they are completely different. See inter religious conflict as a great example (Shia-Sunni Muslims, catholic vs Protestant etc)
  - hnhg 5y ago
    Can you provide any examples? I’ve never seen this and have a lot of connections to the field. Quite the reverse, in fact.
- scotuswroteus 5y ago
  Has the DFEH sued anyone else? That's important context
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  Rogan has removed over a hundred podcast episodes. Most of them this week. https://www.jremissing.com/ https://www.jremissing.com/
  - pyuser583 5y ago
    Motivation to listen to his show? If you don’t listen this today, you might not be able to tomorrow!
- mrandish 5y ago
  > I literally find it impossible to believe this. Yeah, that was my reaction too. It makes zero sense. Suggesting that actual widespread, repeated 'racial segregation' is happening today in a high-profile, very large, publicly traded Silicon Valley company like Tesla is simply ludicrous. The atmosphere in the valley in recent years is pervasive hair-trigger vigilance from company boards, management, HR and employees against even the slightest appearance of any impropriety. The current exponentially punitive environment and runaway social media amplification have made the downsides for a public company basically limitless. And what possible benefit could there be from permitting racial segregation? Tesla is nothing if not pragmatic. The "accused" is being pilloried for an alleged "crime" despite the absence of any evidence, motivation or opportunity. It's troubling how the "prosecution" of allegations can now be the punishment.
  - justapassenger 5y ago
    > Yeah, that was my reaction too. It makes zero sense. Suggesting that actual widespread, repeated 'racial segregation' is happening today in a high-profile, very large, publicly traded Silicon Valley company like Tesla is simply ludicrous. The atmosphere in the valley in recent years is pervasive hair-trigger vigilance from company boards, management, HR and employees against even the slightest appearance of any impropriety. It must be nice living in a bubble, in a bubble that is Silicon Valley. There's A LOT of racism here once you leave the neat tech offices filled with highly educated people getting $200k out of college.
joelbondurant1 5y ago
JaimeThompson 5y ago
It's a bit strange that Musk doesn't allow his workers the freedom to talk about such things without risking being fired given his numerous statements about freedoms and such.

> Diaz was awarded $6.9m in damages for emotional distress and $130m in punitive damages, in what is believed to be the largest such verdict of its kind. :O You would think they would be super sensitive to these claims after shelling out 130M for this.

mlindner 5y ago
The lawsuit is about claims that happened between 2015 and 2019 so probably the same people. Also that other lawsuit isn't settled and is still being tried in court. The lowest court ruled that but it's currently under appeal and very likely to be lowered or reversed.

cloutchaser 5y ago

This has nothing to do of course with Musk being quite visibly resistant to aggressive far-left tactics, and standing up to political rhetoric vs Sanders and Warren. No, not a power game at all. With the world we live in, and the high profile of Tesla, not to mention their great record on LGBT rights in the past, I literally find it impossible to believe this. Widespread racial segregation? Like which company would create it's own suicide by doing this? In Silicon valley, california, the most "progressive" place on earth? Which company or HR deparment in 2022 isn't terrified of even a hint of racism, and would jump and correcting it. This is a hit job to show a rebel who's boss. Just like the wave after wave of attempts to get Rogan off Spotify.

advisedwang 5y ago
> I literally find it impossible to believe this According to the article, there were hundreds of complaints from workers. But based on reputation you are willing to disbelieve them all and conclude that the state shouldn't follow up?
- panick21_ 5y ago
  There is a difference between people complaining about other worker making comments and implementing racial segregation. Its hard to believe that a car plant in California was more racist then all those in the South.
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    >Its hard to believe that a car plant in California was more racist then all those in the South. If it's run like an apartheid South African company, I dont find it hard to believe.
- SllX 5y ago
  At this point I’ll believe a court of law, at the conclusion of the trial.
- cloutchaser 5y ago
  > Diaz was awarded $6.9m in damages for emotional distress and $130m in punitive damages, in what is believed to be the largest such verdict of its kind. If I heard my company just did that, I'd make damn sure I'd have something to file a complaint about too.
  - Drblessing 5y ago
    > Financial motive > Political motive Certainly will raise doubts in the mind of any rational thinker.
- tim333 5y ago
  Tesla respond quite well in their blog: >Over the past five years, the DFEH has been asked on almost 50 occasions by individuals who believe they were discriminated against or harassed to investigate Tesla. On every single occasion, when the DFEH closed an investigation, it did not find misconduct against Tesla. It therefore strains credibility for the agency to now allege, after a three-year investigation, that systematic racial discrimination and harassment somehow existed at Tesla. and similar.
klyrs 5y ago
> ...not to mention their great record on LGBT rights in the past, I literally find it impossible to believe this. It is a mistake to view all social issues as a monolith. In the US, the Women's Suffrage movement rather famously had a single-minded focus on getting white women the vote. Personally, I've met quite a few openly and unapologetically homophobic black people, as well as openly "I'm-not-racist-but"-anti-black gay people. That a company would try (and even succeed) along one axis and completely fail at another one isn't a surprise. Concluding that this is a hit job assumes that Tesla is perfectly progressive (Musk is pretty vocally anti-progressive) both in its goals (company-level policies) and its actions (hierarchical manager-level fiefdoms). It sure sounds like individuals with enough evidence to make a case have a financial incentive to bring that evidence to the courts, though. I don't see that as a bad thing.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dragontamer 5y ago
  IIRC, some far-left African American groups were working with the KKK to promote the "Back to Africa" movement through the civil rights era. I forget if it was the Black Panthers or Black Hebrew Israelites / Black Zionists or something along those lines... but there's a significant amount of uncomfortable overlap there. ------- There's also the famous pact between Hitler (far right Fascism) and Stalin (far left Communism). Some people like to say that the left-right spectrum is a horseshoe. The far-left and the far-right start to get similar ideas and the "spectrum" bends back around like a horseshoe, meeting back in the middle. In many ways, its the moderates who disagree on the most number of subjects. And while the language of the extremists (either left or right) are different, the extremists are more alike than their philosophies seem to indicate.
  - scotuswroteus 5y ago
  - irthomasthomas 5y ago
    Yes, the differences between fascism and communism are mostly ideological and academic. To the people living under them it's the same experience. Sacrificing oneself for the good of the nation/party/body. People make the mistake of thinking capitalism is incompatible with communism, but that is false. Marx wrote a lot about the role of technology in wealth creation. He thought that it would be technology that would bring abundance and set man free, and the best technologists where the free-market-capitalists. Marx also said something along the lines that capitalism, unchecked, was bound to become centralised and monopolised, creating the necessary conditions for the revolutionary transfer to totalitarian dictatorship of the proletariat.
lucian1900 5y ago
Warren and Sanders are centrists. Centre-right and centre-left respectively.
- deburo 5y ago
  Warren labeled a centrist is pretty rich considering she keeps yelling at clouds about corporate greed (her explanation for inflation)
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    That’s what centrists tend to say, yes. Compromise between capitalists and workers. Someone on the left might speak about trade unions, collectivising industry, arming workers, etc.
    - deburo 5y ago
      https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/elizabeth-warren/ https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-t... Is that center right?
      - lucian1900 5y ago
        Yes, quite literally Bonapartist compromise between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.
    - nailer 5y ago
      Compromise between business owners and workers. Workers are often capitalists. But yes that’s correct.
      - lucian1900 5y ago
        Capitalists, otherwise known as the bourgeoisie, make money from owning capital. Workers, otherwise known as the proletariat, make money from their own labour. Workers are by definition not capitalists.
prvc 5y ago
Relatedly, what one might call "climate policy proponents" tend to hate and criticize Musk and Tesla above all others, which is strange considering the tremendous positive impact he has enacted precisely in reducing carbon dependence and transitioning humanity to green technology.
- cloutchaser 5y ago
  Conflict is a lot more likely when people are similar but have minor differences, than when they are completely different. See inter religious conflict as a great example (Shia-Sunni Muslims, catholic vs Protestant etc)
- hnhg 5y ago
  Can you provide any examples? I’ve never seen this and have a lot of connections to the field. Quite the reverse, in fact.
scotuswroteus 5y ago
Has the DFEH sued anyone else? That's important context
irthomasthomas 5y ago
Rogan has removed over a hundred podcast episodes. Most of them this week. https://www.jremissing.com/ https://www.jremissing.com/
- pyuser583 5y ago
  Motivation to listen to his show? If you don’t listen this today, you might not be able to tomorrow!
mrandish 5y ago
> I literally find it impossible to believe this. Yeah, that was my reaction too. It makes zero sense. Suggesting that actual widespread, repeated 'racial segregation' is happening today in a high-profile, very large, publicly traded Silicon Valley company like Tesla is simply ludicrous. The atmosphere in the valley in recent years is pervasive hair-trigger vigilance from company boards, management, HR and employees against even the slightest appearance of any impropriety. The current exponentially punitive environment and runaway social media amplification have made the downsides for a public company basically limitless. And what possible benefit could there be from permitting racial segregation? Tesla is nothing if not pragmatic. The "accused" is being pilloried for an alleged "crime" despite the absence of any evidence, motivation or opportunity. It's troubling how the "prosecution" of allegations can now be the punishment.
- justapassenger 5y ago
  > Yeah, that was my reaction too. It makes zero sense. Suggesting that actual widespread, repeated 'racial segregation' is happening today in a high-profile, very large, publicly traded Silicon Valley company like Tesla is simply ludicrous. The atmosphere in the valley in recent years is pervasive hair-trigger vigilance from company boards, management, HR and employees against even the slightest appearance of any impropriety. It must be nice living in a bubble, in a bubble that is Silicon Valley. There's A LOT of racism here once you leave the neat tech offices filled with highly educated people getting $200k out of college.

joelbondurant1 5y ago

JaimeThompson 5y ago

It's a bit strange that Musk doesn't allow his workers the freedom to talk about such things without risking being fired given his numerous statements about freedoms and such.