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> People interested in having something will find a way to know about them. [Citation needed] This is might be true with commodity products, but with disrupti

> People interested in having something will find a way to know about them. [Citation needed] This is might be true with commodity products, but with disruptive products—the kind most people here are producing or selling—that's absolutely not the case. > If I don't know those shoes exist, I will live happily, because I have no fabricated need to fulfill (and most probably if I'll know about them it's because a friend is wearing them). Everybody has "needs" they're not fulfilling. Some of those needs are caused by problems the individual isn't consciously aware of. Some of them are caused by problems the individual is aware of, but isn't aware of the available solutions. Marketing that seeks to educate the individual about the solutions available to them is a net-positive, both for the consumer and the producer.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> [Citation needed] You are the one who needs to prove that without ads people won't get what they want. > but with disruptive products Disruptive is a synonym for "unethical" > Everybody has "needs" they're not fulfilling. [Citation needed] > Some of those needs are caused by problems the individual isn't consciously aware of, but isn't aware of the available solutions and the solution is advertising? you're kidding, right? T: Hi J, I have a problem X, can you help me? J: Hi T, I don't know much about X, but M does. Ask him. 2 hours later T: Thanks J, M was of great help. Now I've solved my problem, I am happy, and my trust in you just got bigger. advertising is *lies* so people not only will try to fulfill a fabricated need, they will also be frustrated by the fact that advertisers *lied* to them. No, Nikes won't help you to "just do it" Running won't be easier, if you never did before, because you buy a pair of shoes that sells you the idea that everyone who's wearing them is an athlete, and that athlete could be you, just buy the shoes. How can you not see the fraud is beyond me. > Marketing that seeks to educate the individual wow. that's grotesque.
- sanedigital 5y ago
  > You are the one who needs to prove that without ads people won't get what they want. This is the default mode for startups. It results in failure. "If you build it, they will come," doesn't work in the marketplace. Try it yourself. > Disruptive is a synonym for "unethical". Hard disagree, sorry. I don't think you're going to find many like-minded people on this site. > > Everybody has "needs" they're not fulfilling. > [Citation needed] I'm not even sure how you can deny this. Do you really think everyone out there is living their best lives? Are businesses out there just performing at 100% efficiency, with no need for any new products or services to help them improve? What do you think economic growth is based on, if not the creation of new value? > and the solution is advertising? Yes, the solution is marketing—advertising being one piece of that puzzle. How did 'M' in your example find out about the product? Are "experts" just born with inherent knowledge of their fields? > advertising is lies so people not only will try to fulfill a fabricated need, they will also be frustrated by the fact that advertisers lied to them. I advertise. Nothing I say is a lie. I advertise that I can help non-technical founders build their MVPs better, faster, and cheaper than my competitors. That's true. I advertise to people that want to build an MVP. Their need exists before I advertise to them. Nobody is going to see an ad of mine and go "Oh man, I was going to spend my paycheck on food, but now that I've seen this ad about NoNerds.com building MVPs, I guess I'll starve and give them all my money instead." > How can you not see the fraud is beyond me. I'm not the one speaking in absolutes. There is bad advertising out there. Most brand advertising is bad. But ~50% of the advertising market is PERFORMANCE, not BRAND. How you can not see the difference between "Buy budweiser and get laid," and "Buy Infotex solutions and save 15% on monthly payroll costs." is beyond me. > that's grotesque. Agree to disagree. The economy is based on the creation and distribution of value. Good marketing seeks to inform individuals of potential sources of value to them. It creates efficiency in the marketplace by allowing new solutions to reach more potential buyers more rapidly. Does it grant airtime to "bad" solutions occasionally? Of course. But in your own arguments, the buyer is ultimately the one responsible for the purchase decision. And if good products are being advertised as well, the buyer is given an opportunity to discover alternatives to the solutions they're already aware of. This increased information allows them to make better economic decisions.
  - brimble 5y ago
    I don't get the "well technically advertising can be good" argument in its favor, yet it's the most common one I see on this site. If 5% is good (I'm being very generous) and "seeks to inform individuals of potential sources of value to them", that's still 95% manipulative, deceptive crap.
    - sanedigital 5y ago
      The inconvenient truth for the anti-advertising crowd is that modern digital advertising is one of the most democratizing forces in business history. I can develop an offer in minutes and spend less than $20 to get *thousands* of eyeballs on that offer by the end of the day. I don't need a $100K marketing budget, I don't need representation on Madison Avenue, I don't need to hire a sales force to make cold calls. For small businesses, that power is revolutionary.
      - barbazoo 5y ago
        I think no one is arguing that it works. I think people are saying it's unethical and/or "95% manipulative, deceptive crap"
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    > > [Citation needed] > I'm not even sure how you can deny this. Do you really think everyone out there is living their best lives? I would say it's a bit of a stretch to assume the majority of "stuff" that's advertised contributes to someone living a better version of their life.
  - js8 5y ago
    > This is the default mode for startups. It results in failure. "If you build it, they will come," doesn't work in the marketplace. It worked for many open source products. It worked for games like Minecraft and Factorio. Looks to me, if you're unique enough, they will come, but if you're not, tough - perhaps nobody really needs another crappy version of what's already out there.
- cglace 5y ago
  As a business owner can I hire you to help me acquire customers using your method?
cfraenkel 5y ago
If you're honestly looking for a citation, start with Galbraith's The Affluent Society. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Affluent_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Affluent_Society). This was old hat in the 50s. They just didn't realize it was going to burn the planet (and us with it)

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

> [Citation needed] You are the one who needs to prove that without ads people won't get what they want. > but with disruptive products Disruptive is a synonym for "unethical" > Everybody has "needs" they're not fulfilling. [Citation needed] > Some of those needs are caused by problems the individual isn't consciously aware of, but isn't aware of the available solutions and the solution is advertising? you're kidding, right? T: Hi J, I have a problem X, can you help me? J: Hi T, I don't know much about X, but M does. Ask him. 2 hours later T: Thanks J, M was of great help. Now I've solved my problem, I am happy, and my trust in you just got bigger. advertising is *lies* so people not only will try to fulfill a fabricated need, they will also be frustrated by the fact that advertisers *lied* to them. No, Nikes won't help you to "just do it" Running won't be easier, if you never did before, because you buy a pair of shoes that sells you the idea that everyone who's wearing them is an athlete, and that athlete could be you, just buy the shoes. How can you not see the fraud is beyond me. > Marketing that seeks to educate the individual wow. that's grotesque.

sanedigital 5y ago
> You are the one who needs to prove that without ads people won't get what they want. This is the default mode for startups. It results in failure. "If you build it, they will come," doesn't work in the marketplace. Try it yourself. > Disruptive is a synonym for "unethical". Hard disagree, sorry. I don't think you're going to find many like-minded people on this site. > > Everybody has "needs" they're not fulfilling. > [Citation needed] I'm not even sure how you can deny this. Do you really think everyone out there is living their best lives? Are businesses out there just performing at 100% efficiency, with no need for any new products or services to help them improve? What do you think economic growth is based on, if not the creation of new value? > and the solution is advertising? Yes, the solution is marketing—advertising being one piece of that puzzle. How did 'M' in your example find out about the product? Are "experts" just born with inherent knowledge of their fields? > advertising is lies so people not only will try to fulfill a fabricated need, they will also be frustrated by the fact that advertisers lied to them. I advertise. Nothing I say is a lie. I advertise that I can help non-technical founders build their MVPs better, faster, and cheaper than my competitors. That's true. I advertise to people that want to build an MVP. Their need exists before I advertise to them. Nobody is going to see an ad of mine and go "Oh man, I was going to spend my paycheck on food, but now that I've seen this ad about NoNerds.com building MVPs, I guess I'll starve and give them all my money instead." > How can you not see the fraud is beyond me. I'm not the one speaking in absolutes. There is bad advertising out there. Most brand advertising is bad. But ~50% of the advertising market is PERFORMANCE, not BRAND. How you can not see the difference between "Buy budweiser and get laid," and "Buy Infotex solutions and save 15% on monthly payroll costs." is beyond me. > that's grotesque. Agree to disagree. The economy is based on the creation and distribution of value. Good marketing seeks to inform individuals of potential sources of value to them. It creates efficiency in the marketplace by allowing new solutions to reach more potential buyers more rapidly. Does it grant airtime to "bad" solutions occasionally? Of course. But in your own arguments, the buyer is ultimately the one responsible for the purchase decision. And if good products are being advertised as well, the buyer is given an opportunity to discover alternatives to the solutions they're already aware of. This increased information allows them to make better economic decisions.
- brimble 5y ago
  I don't get the "well technically advertising can be good" argument in its favor, yet it's the most common one I see on this site. If 5% is good (I'm being very generous) and "seeks to inform individuals of potential sources of value to them", that's still 95% manipulative, deceptive crap.
  - sanedigital 5y ago
    The inconvenient truth for the anti-advertising crowd is that modern digital advertising is one of the most democratizing forces in business history. I can develop an offer in minutes and spend less than $20 to get *thousands* of eyeballs on that offer by the end of the day. I don't need a $100K marketing budget, I don't need representation on Madison Avenue, I don't need to hire a sales force to make cold calls. For small businesses, that power is revolutionary.
    - barbazoo 5y ago
      I think no one is arguing that it works. I think people are saying it's unethical and/or "95% manipulative, deceptive crap"
- barbazoo 5y ago
  > > [Citation needed] > I'm not even sure how you can deny this. Do you really think everyone out there is living their best lives? I would say it's a bit of a stretch to assume the majority of "stuff" that's advertised contributes to someone living a better version of their life.
- js8 5y ago
  > This is the default mode for startups. It results in failure. "If you build it, they will come," doesn't work in the marketplace. It worked for many open source products. It worked for games like Minecraft and Factorio. Looks to me, if you're unique enough, they will come, but if you're not, tough - perhaps nobody really needs another crappy version of what's already out there.
cglace 5y ago
As a business owner can I hire you to help me acquire customers using your method?

cfraenkel 5y ago

If you're honestly looking for a citation, start with Galbraith's The Affluent Society. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Affluent_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Affluent_Society). This was old hat in the 50s. They just didn't realize it was going to burn the planet (and us with it)