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Hah, it's a myth that Switzerland is so privacy oriented. They have laws saying that the Swiss intelligence services can access all data, so it wouldn't help.

by rolisz 5y ago

Hah, it's a myth that Switzerland is so privacy oriented. They have laws saying that the Swiss intelligence services can access all data, so it wouldn't help. And Switzerland is not part of the EU.

jeffbee 5y ago
Both Swiss and German people seem completely deluded about the activities of their own governments and intelligence agencies.
- zwaps 5y ago
  Why tho? Do you think German citizens have more privacy in Germany than in the US, where the US legislature clearly states that non US citizens have zero privacy rights whatsoever? I don't think it's delusion, I think it is literally correct.
- freeflight 5y ago
  You gonna have to be a bit more specific than that. When I think "Swiss", "Germany" and "government intelligence agencies" then the things that come to my mind are Crypto AG [0], how the BND started out as a CIA OP [1] and how the very same BND seems to be more interested in pleasing American interests than protecting Germans [2]. Which is btw the same BND who cooperates with the NSA [3] to help them tap directly into one of the world's largest IXP De-CIX, completely legal in Germany [4]. The US made sure of that by pressuring the West German government into watering down the G-10 law [5] during the cold war. So whatever "delusions" you are referring there to, you have to be a bit more concrete about them. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-cia-bnd-germany-intelligence-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-ci... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eikonal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eikonal [4] https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/de-cix-betreiber-von-internet-knoten-verliert-klage-gegen-bnd-a-1210243.html https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/de-cix-betreiber... [5] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201403/20140307ATT80674/20140307ATT80674EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/2014...

by rolisz 5y ago

Hah, it's a myth that Switzerland is so privacy oriented. They have laws saying that the Swiss intelligence services can access all data, so it wouldn't help. And Switzerland is not part of the EU.

jeffbee 5y ago

Both Swiss and German people seem completely deluded about the activities of their own governments and intelligence agencies.

zwaps 5y ago
Why tho? Do you think German citizens have more privacy in Germany than in the US, where the US legislature clearly states that non US citizens have zero privacy rights whatsoever? I don't think it's delusion, I think it is literally correct.
freeflight 5y ago
You gonna have to be a bit more specific than that. When I think "Swiss", "Germany" and "government intelligence agencies" then the things that come to my mind are Crypto AG [0], how the BND started out as a CIA OP [1] and how the very same BND seems to be more interested in pleasing American interests than protecting Germans [2]. Which is btw the same BND who cooperates with the NSA [3] to help them tap directly into one of the world's largest IXP De-CIX, completely legal in Germany [4]. The US made sure of that by pressuring the West German government into watering down the G-10 law [5] during the cold war. So whatever "delusions" you are referring there to, you have to be a bit more concrete about them. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-cia-bnd-germany-intelligence-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-ci... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial_espionage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eikonal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eikonal [4] https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/de-cix-betreiber-von-internet-knoten-verliert-klage-gegen-bnd-a-1210243.html https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/de-cix-betreiber... [5] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201403/20140307ATT80674/20140307ATT80674EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/2014...