4 ms·

Associate means employee

by hammock 5y ago

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lotsofpulp 5y ago
I was under the impression the problem was Apple was representing the person as a current employee, but I think I am wrong about that. If apple is confirming correct dates of employment, then I would have to retract.
genocidicbunny 5y ago
Associate, in the USA at least, has a strong connotation of a junior position. As the article points out, there are plenty of examples of associate being used to describe a more junior position. And you know what other word unambiguously means 'employee'? That wouldn't cause this sort of clamor? Yes, 'employee' is that word.
- ghaff 5y ago
  What if they were a contractor? Or were both an employee and a contractor over the course of their time there? I'm an "associate" at the company I work for and I'm certainly not junior. I certainly don't take offense at considering myself as an associate. In specific contexts, e.g. an associate vs. a partner at a law firm, it has a different meaning but it's also a very common term to refer to all employees at a company.
  - hammock 5y ago
    Thank you for a supporting viewpoint. Amazing the amount of downvotes I've gotten in this thread, from people who I have to imagine have just never come across this term used in that way.
  - genocidicbunny 5y ago
    Well if we're going to anecdata, I've held jobs where I started as 'associate' and was promoted to something resembling 'software engineer.' Similarly, in the one where they liked to refer to everyone as associates, that was never a term used in any of the contracts which needed to actually use the word that defines someone as being employed by the company -- employee. I think some of the blowback you and others are getting for saying 'associate is just employee' is because to many people, 'associate' does have a negative connotation compared to 'employee', and Apple has a history of being hostile to labour; Not to mention that if they really wanted to protect privacy, they could just do what most companies do -- confirm dates of employment, and possibly if they're re-hirable at Apple. Its not unfair to assume Apple isn't doing this out of the benevolence of their hearts.
    - hammock 5y ago
      What are you considering anecdata? The US's two largest employers (Walmart and Amazon) and Marriott use "associates." Target, Hilton, Qdoba and other companies use "team members." Starbucks uses "partners." Hyatt uses "colleagues." Cabela's uses "outfitters." Cringe for sure, but not using "employee" is more common than many think. I certainly understand that this context may be less familiar than the different use of "associate" at perhaps the more familiar VC firm or law firm, retail store, etc. But it's my educated guess that this former context is the one in which Apple is using associate.
      - genocidicbunny 5y ago
        Do these companies consistently use associates, or is there a division between say hourly and salary, or retail vs back-office employees? (I am specifically excluding things like directory and C-level positions because those tend to be much more specialized contracts.) For example, Trader Joe's has Crew Members for the average retail workers, and Mates/Captain for the manager level. Just the titles alone implied a hierarchy. Does Amazon call their SDEs and SREs associates as well? If not, then they're still setting up a pecking order. (As an aside, I can accept calling your employees associates, or something cute like colleagues or outfitters, depending on the nature of the business. But Starbucks calling their employees partners rubs me the wrong way. That one does just seem like gaslighting.)
- shapefrog 5y ago
  In the USA at least, Vice President has a strong connotation of the 2nd most powerful person in the goverment. Most companies have one or more people titled as such, yet not all of them employ the Vice President of the USA.
  - titoCA321 5y ago
    There are places in Wall Street that hand out "Vice President" titles as candy.

Associate means employee

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lotsofpulp 5y ago

I was under the impression the problem was Apple was representing the person as a current employee, but I think I am wrong about that. If apple is confirming correct dates of employment, then I would have to retract.

genocidicbunny 5y ago

Associate, in the USA at least, has a strong connotation of a junior position. As the article points out, there are plenty of examples of associate being used to describe a more junior position. And you know what other word unambiguously means 'employee'? That wouldn't cause this sort of clamor? Yes, 'employee' is that word.

ghaff 5y ago
What if they were a contractor? Or were both an employee and a contractor over the course of their time there? I'm an "associate" at the company I work for and I'm certainly not junior. I certainly don't take offense at considering myself as an associate. In specific contexts, e.g. an associate vs. a partner at a law firm, it has a different meaning but it's also a very common term to refer to all employees at a company.
- hammock 5y ago
  Thank you for a supporting viewpoint. Amazing the amount of downvotes I've gotten in this thread, from people who I have to imagine have just never come across this term used in that way.
- genocidicbunny 5y ago
  Well if we're going to anecdata, I've held jobs where I started as 'associate' and was promoted to something resembling 'software engineer.' Similarly, in the one where they liked to refer to everyone as associates, that was never a term used in any of the contracts which needed to actually use the word that defines someone as being employed by the company -- employee. I think some of the blowback you and others are getting for saying 'associate is just employee' is because to many people, 'associate' does have a negative connotation compared to 'employee', and Apple has a history of being hostile to labour; Not to mention that if they really wanted to protect privacy, they could just do what most companies do -- confirm dates of employment, and possibly if they're re-hirable at Apple. Its not unfair to assume Apple isn't doing this out of the benevolence of their hearts.
  - hammock 5y ago
    What are you considering anecdata? The US's two largest employers (Walmart and Amazon) and Marriott use "associates." Target, Hilton, Qdoba and other companies use "team members." Starbucks uses "partners." Hyatt uses "colleagues." Cabela's uses "outfitters." Cringe for sure, but not using "employee" is more common than many think. I certainly understand that this context may be less familiar than the different use of "associate" at perhaps the more familiar VC firm or law firm, retail store, etc. But it's my educated guess that this former context is the one in which Apple is using associate.
    - genocidicbunny 5y ago
      Do these companies consistently use associates, or is there a division between say hourly and salary, or retail vs back-office employees? (I am specifically excluding things like directory and C-level positions because those tend to be much more specialized contracts.) For example, Trader Joe's has Crew Members for the average retail workers, and Mates/Captain for the manager level. Just the titles alone implied a hierarchy. Does Amazon call their SDEs and SREs associates as well? If not, then they're still setting up a pecking order. (As an aside, I can accept calling your employees associates, or something cute like colleagues or outfitters, depending on the nature of the business. But Starbucks calling their employees partners rubs me the wrong way. That one does just seem like gaslighting.)
shapefrog 5y ago
In the USA at least, Vice President has a strong connotation of the 2nd most powerful person in the goverment. Most companies have one or more people titled as such, yet not all of them employ the Vice President of the USA.
- titoCA321 5y ago
  There are places in Wall Street that hand out "Vice President" titles as candy.