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Title is nothing subjective. In fact, titles and levels can be matched between two companies easily. Anyway, this is not what Apple is doing. They are downgrad

Title is nothing subjective. In fact, titles and levels can be matched between two companies easily. Anyway, this is not what Apple is doing. They are downgrading everyone by default, which is akin to providing false information about a former employee.

hammock 5y ago
"Associate" is not a downgrade. It's a generic title that means "employee" and literally everyone (except maybe named officers in the legal filings) is an associate.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  disagree. If I leave a company I am have no role there - I am not an associate, a customer service rep, or an engineer. What was I during my employment is a question of fact that can be answered without liability, but changing my title and lying to inquirers about what it was might be a liability.
  - hammock 5y ago
    No one is saying you weren't a CSR, or an engineer, or anything else. They simply aren't providing that i for around. Instead, they are confirming employment, calling you an employee. If you have never worked at a company that case employees "associates" this may feel foreign to you, but rest assured it's extremely common and not something to get your ego in a knot over.
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      instead of giving the working title while there, they lie and say you're an associate when you aren't when not employed by apple, and weren't when you were there, because your title wasn't associate. It's either a lie or sabotage, and neither way good for the employee.
- manuelabeledo 5y ago
  Right, so are you telling me that an associate and an “associate VP” are the same thing?
axg11 5y ago
> Title is nothing subjective. In fact, titles and levels can be matched between two companies easily. There is zero truth to this statement. Perhaps job families can be matched (engineering vs sales, manager vs IC). Other than that, it’s impossible to equate. I’ve seen a VP of Engineering at a startup start as a junior engineer at a FAANG.
- manuelabeledo 5y ago
  > I’ve seen a VP of Engineering at a startup start as a junior engineer at a FAANG. This is a fringe case. In turn, there are widely available spreadsheets where you can find the equivalent levels across dozens of companies, most popular of which are FAANG.
- sennight 5y ago
  > Other than that, it’s impossible to equate. Well if you totally ignore the concept of scale, sure. It sounds like your "VP of Engineering" at a startup was actually a junior engineer not doing anything you'd expect a VP to really do... like manage a complex hierarchy of departments, managers, and special projects.
gwbas1c 5y ago
Software Engineer 1, Software Engineer 4... Often the title is bestowed to keep someone in a pay grade. ("Oh, we are really strict about salaries and only pay market rate. Everyone within the same title gets paid the same... But I think I can get you promoted to rank 22.")

hammock 5y ago

"Associate" is not a downgrade. It's a generic title that means "employee" and literally everyone (except maybe named officers in the legal filings) is an associate.

LegitShady 5y ago
disagree. If I leave a company I am have no role there - I am not an associate, a customer service rep, or an engineer. What was I during my employment is a question of fact that can be answered without liability, but changing my title and lying to inquirers about what it was might be a liability.
- hammock 5y ago
  No one is saying you weren't a CSR, or an engineer, or anything else. They simply aren't providing that i for around. Instead, they are confirming employment, calling you an employee. If you have never worked at a company that case employees "associates" this may feel foreign to you, but rest assured it's extremely common and not something to get your ego in a knot over.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    instead of giving the working title while there, they lie and say you're an associate when you aren't when not employed by apple, and weren't when you were there, because your title wasn't associate. It's either a lie or sabotage, and neither way good for the employee.
manuelabeledo 5y ago
Right, so are you telling me that an associate and an “associate VP” are the same thing?

axg11 5y ago

> Title is nothing subjective. In fact, titles and levels can be matched between two companies easily. There is zero truth to this statement. Perhaps job families can be matched (engineering vs sales, manager vs IC). Other than that, it’s impossible to equate. I’ve seen a VP of Engineering at a startup start as a junior engineer at a FAANG.

manuelabeledo 5y ago
> I’ve seen a VP of Engineering at a startup start as a junior engineer at a FAANG. This is a fringe case. In turn, there are widely available spreadsheets where you can find the equivalent levels across dozens of companies, most popular of which are FAANG.
sennight 5y ago
> Other than that, it’s impossible to equate. Well if you totally ignore the concept of scale, sure. It sounds like your "VP of Engineering" at a startup was actually a junior engineer not doing anything you'd expect a VP to really do... like manage a complex hierarchy of departments, managers, and special projects.

gwbas1c 5y ago

Software Engineer 1, Software Engineer 4... Often the title is bestowed to keep someone in a pay grade. ("Oh, we are really strict about salaries and only pay market rate. Everyone within the same title gets paid the same... But I think I can get you promoted to rank 22.")