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Strangely, that seems to be highly linked to the country > While Americans drove less in 2020 due to the pandemic, NHTSA’s early estimates show that an estimat

Strangely, that seems to be highly linked to the country > While Americans drove less in 2020 due to the pandemic, NHTSA’s early estimates show that an estimated 38,680 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes—the largest projected number of fatalities since 2007. This represents an increase of about 7.2 percent as compared to the 36,096 fatalities reported in 2019. > 2,780 people died in 2020 on French roads, in mainland France or overseas territories. This figure, 21% lower than in 2019, is historically low. This evolution is largely explained by the effects of the global epidemic of Covid-19. Accidents are down -19% and injuries are down -20%. +7% in the US, -20% in France. I wonder what is driving this large difference https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-fatality-data-show-increased-traffic-fatalities-during-pandemic https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-fatality-data-show... https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/en/road-safety-performance/annual-road-safety-reports/2020-road-safety-annual-report https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/en/road-safety-p...

pessimizer 5y ago
It was highly linked to me (I'm in the US.) And I'm on a motorcycle, so it was like 10x as dangerous. I really had to check myself. I chalked it up to being so used to stealing a little speed between traffic clogs to make up for said traffic clogs that when there were no traffic, I hadn't mentally adjusted.
- tetsusaiga 5y ago
  One thing I noticed— it seemed like people were running red lights with an abandon that I'd never witnessed before. It was like they just didn't care anymore. Anecdotally, whenever I'd mention this to someone they would say they noticed the very same thing, although I realize that data point could be meaningless. Still, let me know if you noticed it where you are too.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    This must be a regional thing. You pretty much[1] NEVER see anyone just blow a light in the northeast. Ignore a no right on red sign or squeak a few extra cars through as a yellow turns red, sure. But I've never seen anybody ever just barrel through an established red like a truck that's lost its brakes in a Russian dash-cam video. Not during the pandemic, not ever. [1] By "pretty much" I mean "literally, but I'm covering my ass lest everyone chime in with that anecdote from a police chase in downtown Boston that you saw on the news in 1998".
    - optimusclimb 5y ago
      Live in Salt Lake City now. Blowing red lights is like a sport here it seems.
    - mitchdoogle 5y ago
      >squeak a few extra cars through as a yellow turns red, sure. For one thing, this counts as blowing through a red light. Secondly, I've seen plenty of this in Philly - people blowing blowing through stop lights and stop signs
    - flyinghamster 5y ago
      Here in the Midwest, I see plenty of people stretching yellow into orange, particularly on left-turn arrows. It's very rare for me to see someone just charge through a light that's been red for any significant length of time, but sometimes it comes up in the news headlines.
      - rascul 5y ago
        > It's very rare for me to see someone just charge through a light that's been red for any significant length of time I'm in southern Mississippi, and that's the socially accepted way to go through an intersection. I'm only partially joking.
    - rrdharan 5y ago
      I’ve seen it in Brooklyn on multiple occasions, always late night.
    - foo_barrio 5y ago
      I'm in the Northeast (Fairfield County, CT) and see red light blowing on an almost daily basis. Even during rush hour after 2020. I mean people even anticipate it. At least twice a month I'll see a clear intersection and a light that has been green for 2-3 seconds and cars are still waiting because some idiot is just barreling along in broad daylight with no intention of stopping coming the opposite way.
  - thereddaikon 5y ago
    I've noticed it too. And it isn't just running it "by a little" where someone could theoretically talk their way out of a ticket by saying they mistimed the light. But I'm talking about really egregious examples where if the guy going the other way had been inattentive they would have gotten tboned.
    - tetsusaiga 5y ago
      This is a key part of it that I left out actually, the egregious nature of it. Interesting to hear you say this too.
    - ryandrake 5y ago
      I think part of it is that we've just gone through about two years of nationwide, massive, consequence-free civil disobedience campaigns, watched people ignore public health mandates with impunity, and read reports of a handful of regions decriminalizing certain petty crimes. People take in this input and, somewhat accurately, determine that nobody is home at the police station and anything goes now.
      - thereddaikon 5y ago
        There are probably multiple causes, malaise due to covid messing with our way of life, as you said unrest and civil disobedience. When the authorities have bigger fish to fry you can get away with a lot of small things. I get the sense of a general discontent with how things are going in general. And that feeds back into this.
  - rascul 5y ago
    > One thing I noticed— it seemed like people were running red lights with an abandon that I'd never witnessed before. I don't know that it happens more often here now, because it wasn't enforced to begin with. I saw someone run a red light to make a left turn, in front of a police car who had a green light and had to slam on the brakes to let the guy run the red light in front of him. The police officer simply continued down the road afterwards. That kind of stuff happens all the time here. There's a few police that might give you a speeding ticket but mostly they only care if you have drugs, alcohol, or cash.
i_am_proteus 5y ago
I've been out to France. Nice country. Legal all over to have those radar-actuated speed cameras, illegal for the folks who live there to have radar detectors. The way I figure, that translates to more people abiding by the speed laws. Lower speeds, less shenanigans, less road deaths. Simple. Those sorts of laws in the USA vary a lot. Out West, especially on the long flats, speed limits end up more a suggestion than a hard-and-fast. USA's got more distance between places, makes sense. Plus it's no secret that the car's a way of life in the USA a bit more than over in Europe, and comparatively we hand our licenses out like child's candy and we're a bit more hesitant to revoke 'em for misbehavior that doesn't involve the bottle. Not saying one way of life is better or anything, don't think that's a thing I'd be qualified to say, but there's plenty to suggest why things are different in one place compared to the other.
- distances 5y ago
  Are there any average speed cameras in the US, taking two photos with cameras far apart from each other and checking the time between them is possible within the speed limits?
  - Pryde 5y ago
    There are; to my understanding the state of Oklahoma uses a system similar to this on their toll roads.
  - derekp7 5y ago
    The Turnpikes were like this back in the day. You got a timestamped slip of paper when you got on, and you paid based on mileage driven when you go off. And if the times showed your average speed was too high, you would get ticketed also at the exit.
    - Bluecobra 5y ago
      I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been done in more places with electronic tolls. If my state was greedy enough they probably could retroactively go through my toll history and mail me a sizable ticket.
syshum 5y ago
I think you would need to look at how much less each nation drove, I have a suspicion that the drop in driving in the US is much less pronounced than in France. US has a much higher driving culture, and we also had much less restrictions in most of the nation, so I suspect the reduction in number of miles driven in the US was not really that much outside the say CA and NY
johnbatch 5y ago
France also had a very strict lockdown with 100,000 police enforcing the no travel laws between March 17th and April 1st had 5.8 million controls and issued 359,000 fines. The US never had a real lockdown. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110584/fines-controls-of-police-containment-coronavirus-france/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110584/fines-controls-o...
Enginerrrd 5y ago
> I wonder what is driving this large difference I'd bet good money that a huge part of the equation is booze or pills. As a former paramedic, booze or drugs accounted for like 80% of accidents I dealt with. Why so high compared to official stats? I think because I live in a relatively rural area whereas most people live in high density cities. Also, sometimes booze doesn't get counted in the official accident statistics if people don't get charged for whatever reason. People don't generally crash unless they're drunk, high, inexperienced, or something unexpected happens like they hit a deer or something. In this case, I'd venture to guess there's less demand to drive in France, and they have a better safety net, and we probably had a lot more drunks.
adrianN 5y ago
The US has roads that are unsafe at the posted speed limit ("stroads"), heavy traffic normally lowers the effective speed to less lethal levels.
tinus_hn 5y ago
If you’re going to compile this kind of data you might want to include data on Germany which has many roads that have no speed limit.

pessimizer 5y ago

It was highly linked to me (I'm in the US.) And I'm on a motorcycle, so it was like 10x as dangerous. I really had to check myself. I chalked it up to being so used to stealing a little speed between traffic clogs to make up for said traffic clogs that when there were no traffic, I hadn't mentally adjusted.

tetsusaiga 5y ago
One thing I noticed— it seemed like people were running red lights with an abandon that I'd never witnessed before. It was like they just didn't care anymore. Anecdotally, whenever I'd mention this to someone they would say they noticed the very same thing, although I realize that data point could be meaningless. Still, let me know if you noticed it where you are too.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  This must be a regional thing. You pretty much[1] NEVER see anyone just blow a light in the northeast. Ignore a no right on red sign or squeak a few extra cars through as a yellow turns red, sure. But I've never seen anybody ever just barrel through an established red like a truck that's lost its brakes in a Russian dash-cam video. Not during the pandemic, not ever. [1] By "pretty much" I mean "literally, but I'm covering my ass lest everyone chime in with that anecdote from a police chase in downtown Boston that you saw on the news in 1998".
  - optimusclimb 5y ago
    Live in Salt Lake City now. Blowing red lights is like a sport here it seems.
  - mitchdoogle 5y ago
    >squeak a few extra cars through as a yellow turns red, sure. For one thing, this counts as blowing through a red light. Secondly, I've seen plenty of this in Philly - people blowing blowing through stop lights and stop signs
  - flyinghamster 5y ago
    Here in the Midwest, I see plenty of people stretching yellow into orange, particularly on left-turn arrows. It's very rare for me to see someone just charge through a light that's been red for any significant length of time, but sometimes it comes up in the news headlines.
    - rascul 5y ago
      > It's very rare for me to see someone just charge through a light that's been red for any significant length of time I'm in southern Mississippi, and that's the socially accepted way to go through an intersection. I'm only partially joking.
  - rrdharan 5y ago
    I’ve seen it in Brooklyn on multiple occasions, always late night.
  - foo_barrio 5y ago
    I'm in the Northeast (Fairfield County, CT) and see red light blowing on an almost daily basis. Even during rush hour after 2020. I mean people even anticipate it. At least twice a month I'll see a clear intersection and a light that has been green for 2-3 seconds and cars are still waiting because some idiot is just barreling along in broad daylight with no intention of stopping coming the opposite way.
- thereddaikon 5y ago
  I've noticed it too. And it isn't just running it "by a little" where someone could theoretically talk their way out of a ticket by saying they mistimed the light. But I'm talking about really egregious examples where if the guy going the other way had been inattentive they would have gotten tboned.
  - tetsusaiga 5y ago
    This is a key part of it that I left out actually, the egregious nature of it. Interesting to hear you say this too.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    I think part of it is that we've just gone through about two years of nationwide, massive, consequence-free civil disobedience campaigns, watched people ignore public health mandates with impunity, and read reports of a handful of regions decriminalizing certain petty crimes. People take in this input and, somewhat accurately, determine that nobody is home at the police station and anything goes now.
    - thereddaikon 5y ago
      There are probably multiple causes, malaise due to covid messing with our way of life, as you said unrest and civil disobedience. When the authorities have bigger fish to fry you can get away with a lot of small things. I get the sense of a general discontent with how things are going in general. And that feeds back into this.
- rascul 5y ago
  > One thing I noticed— it seemed like people were running red lights with an abandon that I'd never witnessed before. I don't know that it happens more often here now, because it wasn't enforced to begin with. I saw someone run a red light to make a left turn, in front of a police car who had a green light and had to slam on the brakes to let the guy run the red light in front of him. The police officer simply continued down the road afterwards. That kind of stuff happens all the time here. There's a few police that might give you a speeding ticket but mostly they only care if you have drugs, alcohol, or cash.

i_am_proteus 5y ago

I've been out to France. Nice country. Legal all over to have those radar-actuated speed cameras, illegal for the folks who live there to have radar detectors. The way I figure, that translates to more people abiding by the speed laws. Lower speeds, less shenanigans, less road deaths. Simple. Those sorts of laws in the USA vary a lot. Out West, especially on the long flats, speed limits end up more a suggestion than a hard-and-fast. USA's got more distance between places, makes sense. Plus it's no secret that the car's a way of life in the USA a bit more than over in Europe, and comparatively we hand our licenses out like child's candy and we're a bit more hesitant to revoke 'em for misbehavior that doesn't involve the bottle. Not saying one way of life is better or anything, don't think that's a thing I'd be qualified to say, but there's plenty to suggest why things are different in one place compared to the other.

distances 5y ago
Are there any average speed cameras in the US, taking two photos with cameras far apart from each other and checking the time between them is possible within the speed limits?
- Pryde 5y ago
  There are; to my understanding the state of Oklahoma uses a system similar to this on their toll roads.
- derekp7 5y ago
  The Turnpikes were like this back in the day. You got a timestamped slip of paper when you got on, and you paid based on mileage driven when you go off. And if the times showed your average speed was too high, you would get ticketed also at the exit.
  - Bluecobra 5y ago
    I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been done in more places with electronic tolls. If my state was greedy enough they probably could retroactively go through my toll history and mail me a sizable ticket.

syshum 5y ago

I think you would need to look at how much less each nation drove, I have a suspicion that the drop in driving in the US is much less pronounced than in France. US has a much higher driving culture, and we also had much less restrictions in most of the nation, so I suspect the reduction in number of miles driven in the US was not really that much outside the say CA and NY

johnbatch 5y ago

France also had a very strict lockdown with 100,000 police enforcing the no travel laws between March 17th and April 1st had 5.8 million controls and issued 359,000 fines. The US never had a real lockdown. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110584/fines-controls-of-police-containment-coronavirus-france/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110584/fines-controls-o...

Enginerrrd 5y ago

> I wonder what is driving this large difference I'd bet good money that a huge part of the equation is booze or pills. As a former paramedic, booze or drugs accounted for like 80% of accidents I dealt with. Why so high compared to official stats? I think because I live in a relatively rural area whereas most people live in high density cities. Also, sometimes booze doesn't get counted in the official accident statistics if people don't get charged for whatever reason. People don't generally crash unless they're drunk, high, inexperienced, or something unexpected happens like they hit a deer or something. In this case, I'd venture to guess there's less demand to drive in France, and they have a better safety net, and we probably had a lot more drunks.

adrianN 5y ago

The US has roads that are unsafe at the posted speed limit ("stroads"), heavy traffic normally lowers the effective speed to less lethal levels.

tinus_hn 5y ago

If you’re going to compile this kind of data you might want to include data on Germany which has many roads that have no speed limit.