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I understand your frustraction with British democratic processes, but you should probably travel to North Korea or Belarus once to see how UK fares on the world

I understand your frustraction with British democratic processes, but you should probably travel to North Korea or Belarus once to see how UK fares on the world scale. Perspective matters.

colordrops 5y ago
I've been to NK, and it's as bad as they say. I still think US democracy is abhorrent. It's not a perspective or relativistic thing. Democracy is not a competition.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It's not a dichotomy, and just because someone else has it worse doesn't mean one shouldn't strive for better.
LatteLazy 5y ago
I don't think it's as simple as either/or. I think we're headed towards Belarus exactly because our current system is performing so so poorly. I'm 37, I've never missed a vote except for 1 for London Mayor. I almost didn't bother last time. I'm just done with the whole system. Theres never been an election where the new government actually did anything for people like me (and I am very average). My vote has never counted (I've lived in three different safe seats). And I think our government is so poorly run, that frankly, a randomly selected general who happened to seize power could do no worse. That's how you end up with Belarus: Run democracy so badly, so undemocratically and produce such poor governments that people just stop believing. That's my complaint here: it's not that I think we're too democratic, it's that we're neither democratic nor effective but because we occasionally hold "elections" people just blindly accept the undemocratic shitshow.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  >That's how you end up with Belarus: >Run democracy so badly, so undemocratically >and produce such poor governments that >people just stop believing. There were no democratic elections in Belarus since 1994. And people did not stop believing. To the contrary, the population backed the opposition candiate in 2020 much more than it did in 2010. I am afraid that you do not realise how differnt life in Belarus is. As an example, people are routinely jailed for being independent observers at the last presidential elections. Or for the posession of the opposition flag. Or for reading "forbidden" Telegram channels. Before they are jailed, they are beaten up and are forced to present public excuses on camera. These public excuses are then aired on state TV, Telegram channels and published on Youtube as advertising [1]. [1] https://euvsdisinfo.eu/the-dirty-side-of-advertising-forced-confessions-from-belarus-on-youtube/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/the-dirty-side-of-advertising-forced-...

I understand your frustraction with British democratic processes, but you should probably travel to North Korea or Belarus once to see how UK fares on the world scale. Perspective matters.

colordrops 5y ago

I've been to NK, and it's as bad as they say. I still think US democracy is abhorrent. It's not a perspective or relativistic thing. Democracy is not a competition.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

It's not a dichotomy, and just because someone else has it worse doesn't mean one shouldn't strive for better.

LatteLazy 5y ago

I don't think it's as simple as either/or. I think we're headed towards Belarus exactly because our current system is performing so so poorly. I'm 37, I've never missed a vote except for 1 for London Mayor. I almost didn't bother last time. I'm just done with the whole system. Theres never been an election where the new government actually did anything for people like me (and I am very average). My vote has never counted (I've lived in three different safe seats). And I think our government is so poorly run, that frankly, a randomly selected general who happened to seize power could do no worse. That's how you end up with Belarus: Run democracy so badly, so undemocratically and produce such poor governments that people just stop believing. That's my complaint here: it's not that I think we're too democratic, it's that we're neither democratic nor effective but because we occasionally hold "elections" people just blindly accept the undemocratic shitshow.

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
>That's how you end up with Belarus: >Run democracy so badly, so undemocratically >and produce such poor governments that >people just stop believing. There were no democratic elections in Belarus since 1994. And people did not stop believing. To the contrary, the population backed the opposition candiate in 2020 much more than it did in 2010. I am afraid that you do not realise how differnt life in Belarus is. As an example, people are routinely jailed for being independent observers at the last presidential elections. Or for the posession of the opposition flag. Or for reading "forbidden" Telegram channels. Before they are jailed, they are beaten up and are forced to present public excuses on camera. These public excuses are then aired on state TV, Telegram channels and published on Youtube as advertising [1]. [1] https://euvsdisinfo.eu/the-dirty-side-of-advertising-forced-confessions-from-belarus-on-youtube/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/the-dirty-side-of-advertising-forced-...