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The map feels somewhat outdated. Belarus is on par with North Korea since 2020, Russia became much less democratic in 2021 and continues its descent in 2022. P

The map feels somewhat outdated. Belarus is on par with North Korea since 2020, Russia became much less democratic in 2021 and continues its descent in 2022. Poland and Hungary are both hybrid regimes now, with Hungary leaning on the authoritarian side.

renw0rp 5y ago
What is the difference between democracy and hybrid regime? Even though I don't like polish government, I really don't think the country is not democratic (but if course all depends on the definitions). I would even argue that many western countries are less democratic after seeing for example some videos from protests in the Netherlands[0] [0] https://youtu.be/VICeJG_bayg https://youtu.be/VICeJG_bayg
- trasz 5y ago
  Netherlands still have proper, independent courts. Poland doesn’t.
- prometheon1 5y ago
  Inferring data based on youtube videos is quite tricky, as the algorithm favors more sensational data points. Protesting in the Netherlands is great as long as you ask for permission (which is not difficult to get) and don't go rioting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNnK5q9pfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNnK5q9pfQ
  - renw0rp 5y ago
    I'm missing this information from the news, so maybe you could elaborate if you know the answer. Didn't they apply for the permission or it's not as easy as you claim (at least in the times of COVID and lockdowns)?
- foxfluff 5y ago
  Arguably democracy is tyranny of the majority against a minority. Sometimes this gets people riled up enough to start an illegal protest, which the authorities try to snuff out. I don't think videos of protest say much about how democratic a country is. It just demonstrates a shortcoming of democracy.
ilogik 5y ago
seriously, how are Hungary and Poland ranked higher than Romania?
javajosh 5y ago
>Belarus is on par with North Korea since 2020 Why? What changed? Realize that Kim Jong-un is worshipped like a living God in the DPRK; Lukashenko is powerful and corrupt, but he's not worshipped. It is very difficult to get into and out of the DPRK; it is (relatively) easy to get in and out of Belarus. Kim Jong-un is really in a class of his own, and it would be remarkable for any other country on Earth to become like the DPRK.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  In Belarus, citizens are put in jail literally for a smiley, let alone private chat messages. Before they are jailed, they are beaten up and are forced to present public excuses on camera. These public excuses are then aired on state TV, Telegram channels and published on Youtube as advertising. Some things are better in Belarus than in North Korea, some are worse, but politically, the regimes are similarily totalitarian.
  - sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
    Same happens in Ukraine btw (citizens are sentenced for a T-shirt). Yet you even know nothing about this (nor do you really care), because Ukraine is "democracy". There's much more to tell here, but this is just a bare example.
    - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
      Here is the link that reports about the smiley case from Belarus [1]. It is a reputable news source, run by former tut.by journalists. What is your reference? [1] https://news.zerkalo.io/life/8867.html https://news.zerkalo.io/life/8867.html
      - sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
        You can start here. This is just a single case, one of many that are similar. https://lviv.tsn.ua/ru/sud-vynes-prigovor-22-letnemu-lvovyaninu-za-futbolku-s-simvolikoy-sssr-kak-nakazali-parnya-1752667.html https://lviv.tsn.ua/ru/sud-vynes-prigovor-22-letnemu-lvovyan... BTW, your link does NOT say anything about a sentence for a smiley. It says she did post a smiley, among other things. That's what is in your story.

renw0rp 5y ago

What is the difference between democracy and hybrid regime? Even though I don't like polish government, I really don't think the country is not democratic (but if course all depends on the definitions). I would even argue that many western countries are less democratic after seeing for example some videos from protests in the Netherlands[0] [0] https://youtu.be/VICeJG_bayg https://youtu.be/VICeJG_bayg

trasz 5y ago
Netherlands still have proper, independent courts. Poland doesn’t.
prometheon1 5y ago
Inferring data based on youtube videos is quite tricky, as the algorithm favors more sensational data points. Protesting in the Netherlands is great as long as you ask for permission (which is not difficult to get) and don't go rioting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNnK5q9pfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNnK5q9pfQ
- renw0rp 5y ago
  I'm missing this information from the news, so maybe you could elaborate if you know the answer. Didn't they apply for the permission or it's not as easy as you claim (at least in the times of COVID and lockdowns)?
foxfluff 5y ago
Arguably democracy is tyranny of the majority against a minority. Sometimes this gets people riled up enough to start an illegal protest, which the authorities try to snuff out. I don't think videos of protest say much about how democratic a country is. It just demonstrates a shortcoming of democracy.

ilogik 5y ago

seriously, how are Hungary and Poland ranked higher than Romania?

javajosh 5y ago

>Belarus is on par with North Korea since 2020 Why? What changed? Realize that Kim Jong-un is worshipped like a living God in the DPRK; Lukashenko is powerful and corrupt, but he's not worshipped. It is very difficult to get into and out of the DPRK; it is (relatively) easy to get in and out of Belarus. Kim Jong-un is really in a class of his own, and it would be remarkable for any other country on Earth to become like the DPRK.

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
In Belarus, citizens are put in jail literally for a smiley, let alone private chat messages. Before they are jailed, they are beaten up and are forced to present public excuses on camera. These public excuses are then aired on state TV, Telegram channels and published on Youtube as advertising. Some things are better in Belarus than in North Korea, some are worse, but politically, the regimes are similarily totalitarian.
- sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
  Same happens in Ukraine btw (citizens are sentenced for a T-shirt). Yet you even know nothing about this (nor do you really care), because Ukraine is "democracy". There's much more to tell here, but this is just a bare example.
  - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
    Here is the link that reports about the smiley case from Belarus [1]. It is a reputable news source, run by former tut.by journalists. What is your reference? [1] https://news.zerkalo.io/life/8867.html https://news.zerkalo.io/life/8867.html
    - sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
      You can start here. This is just a single case, one of many that are similar. https://lviv.tsn.ua/ru/sud-vynes-prigovor-22-letnemu-lvovyaninu-za-futbolku-s-simvolikoy-sssr-kak-nakazali-parnya-1752667.html https://lviv.tsn.ua/ru/sud-vynes-prigovor-22-letnemu-lvovyan... BTW, your link does NOT say anything about a sentence for a smiley. It says she did post a smiley, among other things. That's what is in your story.