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To what degree does technology play a part in these changes? For the two main events cited, as I recall it Myanmar resulted from Facebook wilfully ignoring (in

To what degree does technology play a part in these changes? For the two main events cited, as I recall it Myanmar resulted from Facebook wilfully ignoring (indeed fuelling) a sectarian schism, and the Afghan Army basically conceded a post-withdrawal "peaceful Taliban takeover" by ad-hoc WhatsApp diplomacy, making a mockery of state power by an end-run around official communications. Obviously there are other geopolitical forces at work, but what a turnaround from the Arab Spring when tech seemed to be spreading democracy. Schniere was right about the phase lag between technology empowering progressive actors and bolstering incumbent power. But something else is going on. We seem to be too comfortable funding and propagating what we know to be oppressive technologies, as the NSO debacle illustrates all too well. Knowing that technology is very much NOT neutral, how can we fund tech that has a best chance of net positive outcomes for democracy? Aren't projects Tor, IPFS or Librem Phones the best "all round" horses to back? As well as an Eco/Carbon rating ought we to give technologies a "democracy rating"?

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
> To what degree does technology play a part in these changes? Pretty big; a lot more people are connected now, which allows for social media propaganda companies like Cambridge Analytica (which is now a fall guy; there are much more) to do campaigns to influence democracy. Examples are: - Pushing the 'us vs them' mentality; you see this in many different areas, from left vs right, TERFS vs the rest, racial divides, but also things like flat earthers and anti-vaxxers (the pseudoscience division). This makes people fight among themselves while the higher ups take more power and money for themselves. - Voter manipulation. There have been campaigns - mainly aimed at PoC - that told them their vote is wasted whatever they vote on, that they should vote for the 3rd candidate (nothing wrong with that, if only they had a chance in the broken US voting system), or even giving them misinformation about the date they should go vote or how to (incorrectly) vote by mail. This is pushed by the republicans, because PoC represent less than 10% of their voter base; it's better for the RNC to have people not vote than vote for the democrats. Tor and co are great initiatives in theory, unfortunately they have been ruined by criminals on the one hand, and law enforcement honeypots on the other; there are plenty of instances by now of e.g. 'secure' phone networks getting taken over by law enforcement, causing for example the discovery of organized crime torture rooms: https://nos-nl.translate.goog/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-meer-details-over-martelcontainers-wouwse-plantage?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://nos-nl.translate.goog/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-... (video doesn't seem to work on google translate: direct link https://nos.nl/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-meer-details-over-martelcontainers-wouwse-plantage https://nos.nl/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-meer-details-ov... )
yorwba 5y ago
> as I recall it Myanmar resulted from Facebook wilfully ignoring (indeed fuelling) a sectarian schism No. You may know something about Facebook, but clearly you don't know anything about Myanmar. Here are some Wikipedia links to fill gaps in your knowledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_conflict_in_Myanmar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_conflict_in_Myanmar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Myanmar_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Myanmar_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  Thank you. I know more about Myanmar than I do about Facebook now. And what a long upsetting read that was. There are hardly words to describe such total failure of humanity. I wonder if I may have offended you by understatement. I am sorry if that is so. In place of "sectarian conflict" I should have said: A colossal hell-hole boasting almost a century [1] of uninterrupted brutality, millions of dead, hundreds of thousands of refugees, an intractable death-spiral of poverty, disease, natural disaster, religious division, foreign arms dealers, corporate profiteers, military maniacs, mercenaries, poisoned land, torture camps, rape as a systematic weapon of war, child soldiers, land mines, opium farmers, and.... Facebook. Admittedly the last of those is the least of their worries. Still, for the sake of brevity what phrase like "ongoing civil war" or "ethnic divisions" might succeed, because there are no few words that can describe such a situation or would be acceptable language on this polite board. [1] All those articles seem to suppose things went bad _after_ the British left. Being British, I am supposing they may have started sooner.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

> To what degree does technology play a part in these changes? Pretty big; a lot more people are connected now, which allows for social media propaganda companies like Cambridge Analytica (which is now a fall guy; there are much more) to do campaigns to influence democracy. Examples are: - Pushing the 'us vs them' mentality; you see this in many different areas, from left vs right, TERFS vs the rest, racial divides, but also things like flat earthers and anti-vaxxers (the pseudoscience division). This makes people fight among themselves while the higher ups take more power and money for themselves. - Voter manipulation. There have been campaigns - mainly aimed at PoC - that told them their vote is wasted whatever they vote on, that they should vote for the 3rd candidate (nothing wrong with that, if only they had a chance in the broken US voting system), or even giving them misinformation about the date they should go vote or how to (incorrectly) vote by mail. This is pushed by the republicans, because PoC represent less than 10% of their voter base; it's better for the RNC to have people not vote than vote for the democrats. Tor and co are great initiatives in theory, unfortunately they have been ruined by criminals on the one hand, and law enforcement honeypots on the other; there are plenty of instances by now of e.g. 'secure' phone networks getting taken over by law enforcement, causing for example the discovery of organized crime torture rooms: https://nos-nl.translate.goog/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-meer-details-over-martelcontainers-wouwse-plantage?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://nos-nl.translate.goog/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-... (video doesn't seem to work on google translate: direct link https://nos.nl/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-meer-details-over-martelcontainers-wouwse-plantage https://nos.nl/artikel/2339849-politie-geeft-meer-details-ov... )

yorwba 5y ago

> as I recall it Myanmar resulted from Facebook wilfully ignoring (indeed fuelling) a sectarian schism No. You may know something about Facebook, but clearly you don't know anything about Myanmar. Here are some Wikipedia links to fill gaps in your knowledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_conflict_in_Myanmar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_conflict_in_Myanmar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Myanmar_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Myanmar_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

nonrandomstring 5y ago
Thank you. I know more about Myanmar than I do about Facebook now. And what a long upsetting read that was. There are hardly words to describe such total failure of humanity. I wonder if I may have offended you by understatement. I am sorry if that is so. In place of "sectarian conflict" I should have said: A colossal hell-hole boasting almost a century [1] of uninterrupted brutality, millions of dead, hundreds of thousands of refugees, an intractable death-spiral of poverty, disease, natural disaster, religious division, foreign arms dealers, corporate profiteers, military maniacs, mercenaries, poisoned land, torture camps, rape as a systematic weapon of war, child soldiers, land mines, opium farmers, and.... Facebook. Admittedly the last of those is the least of their worries. Still, for the sake of brevity what phrase like "ongoing civil war" or "ethnic divisions" might succeed, because there are no few words that can describe such a situation or would be acceptable language on this polite board. [1] All those articles seem to suppose things went bad _after_ the British left. Being British, I am supposing they may have started sooner.