5 ms·

The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> the bar is brutally high The men I've seen in maternity wards are just totally normal men.
eropple 5y ago
I used to think that. I genuinely did. I thought that the bar was all the way up in space and that it’s impossible to reach it. I was pretty lonely. Of course, I used to also think that my value was in my net worth and you could have seen all the way from space the “I’m an asshole and I don’t know why nobody will date me” vibes radiating off of me. Then I grew up, I chilled out, and I put conscious effort into things other than my career and being Good At Tech Stuff. Stuff like listening, and exercising my capacity for empathy, and trying to be pleasant to be around. You can project being likeable or interesting for a bit, but I found that it’s easier to be likeable and interesting instead. And suddenly I stopped finding it so difficult at all to find matches and find dates. I met my previous SO of three years on OKCupid and my current SO on Tinder, and it wasn’t until we’d been dating for quite a while that what I did for a living, all that Is This Man A Provider nonsense, even came up. The difficulty is between the ears of one party in this selection process. It’s a mix of getting over oneself and understanding that it’s all a numbers game besides, but one of those things doesn’t work without the other.
- symlinkk 5y ago
  > listening, and exercising my capacity for empathy, and trying to be pleasant to be around None of that matters if you aren’t attractive. You have to be attractive for girls to swipe right on you and start a conversation in the first place.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    It’s actually not that bad if you get out from behind the keyboard and practice. But it’s work and it could take a few years off practice 2-3 times a week.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > You have to be attractive Again, looking in any maternity ward at the fathers you'll see many conventionally unattractive men.
    - guskel 5y ago
      Those are the men who "stuck around". You're not going to see all the deadbeats who are having babies with multiple women in a maternity ward.
      - eropple 5y ago
        Odd thing to but-for him about. About one in five American mothers have children from more than one father, and that includes Very Upstanding(tm) folks who divorce and remarry and not the women falling for those absolute chads of your projection.
        esyir 5y ago
        A bit of a sidetrack, but that seems like a pretty high number to me. At least in my part of the world, the numbers are at least an order of magnitude lower.
        eropple 5y ago
        Probably is high. Americans seem to divorce a lot.
  - eropple 5y ago
    This is the line peddled by MRAs and similar dirtbags, yes, when they need you to be righteously angry about your situation. And yet, somehow one can muddle along and do alright for oneself--and I am not ugly but I'm not particularly attractive. As 'rdtwo notes, though, it does take practice and commitment and it does take time.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Continuing to believe that may be what's holding you back. There are less- and un-attractive females that are looking for a partner as well. The "bar being too high" works in both directions. Also, in regards to longer-term relationships, if this is true: > You have to be attractive for girls to swipe right on you and start a conversation in the first place. Then they're probably not the right ones to be starting a conversation with.
    - epolanski 5y ago
      > Then they're probably not the right ones to be starting a conversation with. Why? Aren't women entitled to be attracted by phisique and by passing good genes?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - insanejudge 5y ago
    what a wild single standard
  - confidantlake 5y ago
    You can work on being attractive with good diet and exercise.
- prawn 5y ago
  I have zero experience with online dating, but I've watched a friend give it a crack after divorce. A brutal appraisal would be: struggling freelancer, doesn't own a house, overweight, mental health issues, greybeard. On the other hand: smart, good sense of humour, etc. Yet he's had a solid number of dates and he puts it down mostly to not putting a picture of him catching a fish in his profile, and holding a decent conversation. To be fair, this is the 40+ age range. It's possible that 18-25 year olds of both genders haven't yet honed in on what makes for a good partner.
  - arbitrary_name 5y ago
    It's exactly like marketing, but the product is you: understand the customer you want, understand the market dynamics, understand the product. Carefully position the product to ensure you are reaching the right customers, and be willing to iterate. I literally A/B tested profile descriptions and pics yo improve my response rates on apps. And now i have a wonderful SO and don't have to deal with those awful apps for the time being.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men. I’ve been seeing this exact trope repeated more and more on HN lately: Some vague assertion that Tinder is the only place for matchmaking and that only a tiny number of men are getting all of the matches. It’s an objectively ridiculous claim for anyone who has experience in the real world where, yes, even “normal” men can find partners. It doesn’t even stand up to the most basic tests of logic. Are only attractive people getting married and having kids? Of course not. So what is actually going on here? Is this some talking point being repeated on some corner of the internet that resonates with a subset of people who view the world through their cell phones instead of getting out and interacting with real other people? It’s an objectively absurd assertion, yet it gets repeated with great confidence in a lot of online discussions.
- skeaker 5y ago
  Genuinely asking, roughly how old are you? I'm in my early-mid twenties and of the ~100 people I keep in touch with my age range from high school, there has been one child born (by accident if the rumors are true) and zero marriages. Of the dozen or so people I keep in regular contact with I've gathered that this is not for lack of trying, either. Obviously there is bias here as this is all anecdotal, but I'm very curious as to how unique this situation is.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    That was the same for me in my mid-20s. By my mid 30s, vast majority are married with children. People are waiting a little longer than the last generation, but it's still happening as normal.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - brewdad 5y ago
    Mid-20s is nothing, especially if your peer group is college educated. My wife and I married at 25 a bit over 20 years ago. Even at that time, we were the first of our friends group to marry. We had our first child right about the time I turned 30. We were only the 2nd of our peer group to have a child. Today, all of our friends from back then are married (a few divorced) with kids. The trend has been only towards waiting longer in the 20+ years since we were ahead of the curve.
epolanski 5y ago
Tinder isn't for relationships, it's a disgusting people market for hook ups. Every profile is basically an ad for a person. Online dating is toxic, most people I know that used it years ago are still there safe for few unicorns. How could it possibly be? Weren't they lookimg for someone? Maybe because it distorts relationships and people as commodities thus making meaningful relationships harder to initiate, maintain and commit.
- da39a3ee 5y ago
  > Online dating is toxic Most serious relationships and marriages that I known of (including mine) that started within the last 7 years or so originate in online dating. I'm in my 40s. You might want to be a little less sure of your opinions.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  Damn near every profile I see says "not here for hookups, no FWB/casual" and people are almost so allergic to any form of flirtatiousness you practically need to keep it "business casual" or you get silence/unmatched. If you're over your mid 20's, you're not using it for hookups, at least in my (US) city.
- confidantlake 5y ago
  What is disgusting about consenting adults wanting to hookup?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

> the bar is brutally high The men I've seen in maternity wards are just totally normal men.

I used to think that. I genuinely did. I thought that the bar was all the way up in space and that it’s impossible to reach it. I was pretty lonely. Of course, I used to also think that my value was in my net worth and you could have seen all the way from space the “I’m an asshole and I don’t know why nobody will date me” vibes radiating off of me. Then I grew up, I chilled out, and I put conscious effort into things other than my career and being Good At Tech Stuff. Stuff like listening, and exercising my capacity for empathy, and trying to be pleasant to be around. You can project being likeable or interesting for a bit, but I found that it’s easier to be likeable and interesting instead. And suddenly I stopped finding it so difficult at all to find matches and find dates. I met my previous SO of three years on OKCupid and my current SO on Tinder, and it wasn’t until we’d been dating for quite a while that what I did for a living, all that Is This Man A Provider nonsense, even came up. The difficulty is between the ears of one party in this selection process. It’s a mix of getting over oneself and understanding that it’s all a numbers game besides, but one of those things doesn’t work without the other.

symlinkk 5y ago
> listening, and exercising my capacity for empathy, and trying to be pleasant to be around None of that matters if you aren’t attractive. You have to be attractive for girls to swipe right on you and start a conversation in the first place.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  It’s actually not that bad if you get out from behind the keyboard and practice. But it’s work and it could take a few years off practice 2-3 times a week.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > You have to be attractive Again, looking in any maternity ward at the fathers you'll see many conventionally unattractive men.
  - guskel 5y ago
    Those are the men who "stuck around". You're not going to see all the deadbeats who are having babies with multiple women in a maternity ward.
    - eropple 5y ago
      Odd thing to but-for him about. About one in five American mothers have children from more than one father, and that includes Very Upstanding(tm) folks who divorce and remarry and not the women falling for those absolute chads of your projection.
      - esyir 5y ago
        A bit of a sidetrack, but that seems like a pretty high number to me. At least in my part of the world, the numbers are at least an order of magnitude lower.
        eropple 5y ago
        Probably is high. Americans seem to divorce a lot.
- eropple 5y ago
  This is the line peddled by MRAs and similar dirtbags, yes, when they need you to be righteously angry about your situation. And yet, somehow one can muddle along and do alright for oneself--and I am not ugly but I'm not particularly attractive. As 'rdtwo notes, though, it does take practice and commitment and it does take time.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  Continuing to believe that may be what's holding you back. There are less- and un-attractive females that are looking for a partner as well. The "bar being too high" works in both directions. Also, in regards to longer-term relationships, if this is true: > You have to be attractive for girls to swipe right on you and start a conversation in the first place. Then they're probably not the right ones to be starting a conversation with.
  - epolanski 5y ago
    > Then they're probably not the right ones to be starting a conversation with. Why? Aren't women entitled to be attracted by phisique and by passing good genes?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- insanejudge 5y ago
  what a wild single standard
- confidantlake 5y ago
  You can work on being attractive with good diet and exercise.
prawn 5y ago
I have zero experience with online dating, but I've watched a friend give it a crack after divorce. A brutal appraisal would be: struggling freelancer, doesn't own a house, overweight, mental health issues, greybeard. On the other hand: smart, good sense of humour, etc. Yet he's had a solid number of dates and he puts it down mostly to not putting a picture of him catching a fish in his profile, and holding a decent conversation. To be fair, this is the 40+ age range. It's possible that 18-25 year olds of both genders haven't yet honed in on what makes for a good partner.
- arbitrary_name 5y ago
  It's exactly like marketing, but the product is you: understand the customer you want, understand the market dynamics, understand the product. Carefully position the product to ensure you are reaching the right customers, and be willing to iterate. I literally A/B tested profile descriptions and pics yo improve my response rates on apps. And now i have a wonderful SO and don't have to deal with those awful apps for the time being.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men. I’ve been seeing this exact trope repeated more and more on HN lately: Some vague assertion that Tinder is the only place for matchmaking and that only a tiny number of men are getting all of the matches. It’s an objectively ridiculous claim for anyone who has experience in the real world where, yes, even “normal” men can find partners. It doesn’t even stand up to the most basic tests of logic. Are only attractive people getting married and having kids? Of course not. So what is actually going on here? Is this some talking point being repeated on some corner of the internet that resonates with a subset of people who view the world through their cell phones instead of getting out and interacting with real other people? It’s an objectively absurd assertion, yet it gets repeated with great confidence in a lot of online discussions.

skeaker 5y ago
Genuinely asking, roughly how old are you? I'm in my early-mid twenties and of the ~100 people I keep in touch with my age range from high school, there has been one child born (by accident if the rumors are true) and zero marriages. Of the dozen or so people I keep in regular contact with I've gathered that this is not for lack of trying, either. Obviously there is bias here as this is all anecdotal, but I'm very curious as to how unique this situation is.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  That was the same for me in my mid-20s. By my mid 30s, vast majority are married with children. People are waiting a little longer than the last generation, but it's still happening as normal.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- brewdad 5y ago
  Mid-20s is nothing, especially if your peer group is college educated. My wife and I married at 25 a bit over 20 years ago. Even at that time, we were the first of our friends group to marry. We had our first child right about the time I turned 30. We were only the 2nd of our peer group to have a child. Today, all of our friends from back then are married (a few divorced) with kids. The trend has been only towards waiting longer in the 20+ years since we were ahead of the curve.

epolanski 5y ago

Tinder isn't for relationships, it's a disgusting people market for hook ups. Every profile is basically an ad for a person. Online dating is toxic, most people I know that used it years ago are still there safe for few unicorns. How could it possibly be? Weren't they lookimg for someone? Maybe because it distorts relationships and people as commodities thus making meaningful relationships harder to initiate, maintain and commit.

da39a3ee 5y ago
> Online dating is toxic Most serious relationships and marriages that I known of (including mine) that started within the last 7 years or so originate in online dating. I'm in my 40s. You might want to be a little less sure of your opinions.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Damn near every profile I see says "not here for hookups, no FWB/casual" and people are almost so allergic to any form of flirtatiousness you practically need to keep it "business casual" or you get silence/unmatched. If you're over your mid 20's, you're not using it for hookups, at least in my (US) city.
confidantlake 5y ago
What is disgusting about consenting adults wanting to hookup?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]