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Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result. But I don’t think it’

Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result. But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else. What I find interesting isn’t so much why men are doing poorly. Why are women doing better in certain areas? Although progress has been made towards institutional equity, men still have the advantage in most places. Why are women succeeding despite that?

_ktx2 5y ago
> Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result. I find gender blaming conversation to be reductive. The decline of men and boys is not men's fault nor is it women's fault. Dare I say there's little data to show either way, nor is it really helpful in healing from a dysfunctional society that has failed you on a systemic and individual level. Even worse, the way some people will wave their hands and use the word "power" to justify why men should be successful is pure misandry and a misunderstanding of the availability and avenues of power. A boy that grows up with an undiagnosed learning challenge is not afforded power or privilege, despite blanketly being regarded as powerful due to their gender. Parallel examples to this are countless. > Why are women doing better in certain areas? Easy. Feminism. It's the societal block for the broader representation of a spectrum of views that are women-centric that has significant force in society. They provide programs that are often woman-exclusive, advocate and raise alarms on issues, etc... There is nothing like this for men because modern rhetoric opposes the idea that men can be a victim to much of anything. The point of the post seems to be, "Maybe stop treating men and boys like the villains in their own story, don't make scarecrows out of other groups as has been historically done, and use positivity to create a culture that men want and strive to be a part of."
- rdtwo 5y ago
  It’s true feminism provides a second set of safety net for women that does not exist for men. Also the rhetoric in media as part of feminism is that women are better than men at everything and a large percentage of people believe it.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 5y ago
  Women as an "interest group" have been incredible at PR this last century. Men, on the other hand, have yet to realize that they can't coast on the existing historic momentum and have to start speaking up. It doesn't help that folks who attempt to represent men's rights are instantly smeared as either pathetic incel losers, or as alt-right oppressor misogynists. There's no in-between that I'm aware of. From what I can tell, shame is the main weapon used against men who claim that men's rights have a justifiable place in society. No healthy "meninism" exists as of today the same way it does for women, and I suspect this is causing all sorts of problems.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Yep mens right is a cesspool of toxicity but so is much of the modern women’s movement one is just tolerated and the other crushed
  - kansface 5y ago
    Doesn't Jordan Peterson occupy that niche?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      He does, but he's painted as some awful far-right figure head for daring to mention mens issues and protesting legally compelled speech. Anyone who takes the time to listen to what he has to say knows his views are actually quite reasonable and mild.
      - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        >Anyone who takes the time to listen to what he has to say knows his views are actually quite reasonable and mild. Unlike his acolytes. He is careful in his language but seems happy for his followers to mis-interpret it.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  Sadly, I could upvote you only once. You have hit the nail on the head.
Glawen 5y ago
In my opinion, women have a better sense of survival than men. I know that if I hit a rough patch in my life, I will certainly make myself miserable and would not care what happens to me. I know it by is not rational, but that would explain also probably why wars are fought by men. Add the fact that society are blaming men for pretty much everything going wrong, it does not surprise me that men are getting loose
indigochill 5y ago
> Why are women succeeding despite that? Might have something to do with women (speaking very broadly) being more social than men. Social connection provide a framework for cooperation and competition, without which some men drift aimlessly. This is just an off-the-cuff hypothesis, though, not researched in any way (at least by me).
Gwarzo 5y ago
"Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result." This is an incredibly asinine take.
- snerbles 5y ago
  But not an uncommon one.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
You have the power? Break the law, you get more jail time than women. Get a divorce, women automatically get the children and half of your assets and you pay alimony. They cry rape and you are instantly guilty. But you are right, women aren't the problem. You are.
Zababa 5y ago
> But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else. > What I find interesting isn’t so much why men are doing poorly. Why are women doing better in certain areas? You answered you own question. The """men in power""" spend more time helping women like them than helping men different from them (in terms of money and power).

_ktx2 5y ago

> Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result. I find gender blaming conversation to be reductive. The decline of men and boys is not men's fault nor is it women's fault. Dare I say there's little data to show either way, nor is it really helpful in healing from a dysfunctional society that has failed you on a systemic and individual level. Even worse, the way some people will wave their hands and use the word "power" to justify why men should be successful is pure misandry and a misunderstanding of the availability and avenues of power. A boy that grows up with an undiagnosed learning challenge is not afforded power or privilege, despite blanketly being regarded as powerful due to their gender. Parallel examples to this are countless. > Why are women doing better in certain areas? Easy. Feminism. It's the societal block for the broader representation of a spectrum of views that are women-centric that has significant force in society. They provide programs that are often woman-exclusive, advocate and raise alarms on issues, etc... There is nothing like this for men because modern rhetoric opposes the idea that men can be a victim to much of anything. The point of the post seems to be, "Maybe stop treating men and boys like the villains in their own story, don't make scarecrows out of other groups as has been historically done, and use positivity to create a culture that men want and strive to be a part of."

rdtwo 5y ago
It’s true feminism provides a second set of safety net for women that does not exist for men. Also the rhetoric in media as part of feminism is that women are better than men at everything and a large percentage of people believe it.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 5y ago
Women as an "interest group" have been incredible at PR this last century. Men, on the other hand, have yet to realize that they can't coast on the existing historic momentum and have to start speaking up. It doesn't help that folks who attempt to represent men's rights are instantly smeared as either pathetic incel losers, or as alt-right oppressor misogynists. There's no in-between that I'm aware of. From what I can tell, shame is the main weapon used against men who claim that men's rights have a justifiable place in society. No healthy "meninism" exists as of today the same way it does for women, and I suspect this is causing all sorts of problems.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Yep mens right is a cesspool of toxicity but so is much of the modern women’s movement one is just tolerated and the other crushed
- kansface 5y ago
  Doesn't Jordan Peterson occupy that niche?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    He does, but he's painted as some awful far-right figure head for daring to mention mens issues and protesting legally compelled speech. Anyone who takes the time to listen to what he has to say knows his views are actually quite reasonable and mild.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      >Anyone who takes the time to listen to what he has to say knows his views are actually quite reasonable and mild. Unlike his acolytes. He is careful in his language but seems happy for his followers to mis-interpret it.
N1H1L 5y ago
Sadly, I could upvote you only once. You have hit the nail on the head.

Glawen 5y ago

In my opinion, women have a better sense of survival than men. I know that if I hit a rough patch in my life, I will certainly make myself miserable and would not care what happens to me. I know it by is not rational, but that would explain also probably why wars are fought by men. Add the fact that society are blaming men for pretty much everything going wrong, it does not surprise me that men are getting loose

indigochill 5y ago

> Why are women succeeding despite that? Might have something to do with women (speaking very broadly) being more social than men. Social connection provide a framework for cooperation and competition, without which some men drift aimlessly. This is just an off-the-cuff hypothesis, though, not researched in any way (at least by me).

Gwarzo 5y ago

"Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result." This is an incredibly asinine take.

snerbles 5y ago
But not an uncommon one.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

You have the power? Break the law, you get more jail time than women. Get a divorce, women automatically get the children and half of your assets and you pay alimony. They cry rape and you are instantly guilty. But you are right, women aren't the problem. You are.

Zababa 5y ago

> But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else. > What I find interesting isn’t so much why men are doing poorly. Why are women doing better in certain areas? You answered you own question. The """men in power""" spend more time helping women like them than helping men different from them (in terms of money and power).