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> Because it immediately led to an increase in anti-asian hate crimes. I'm asking the following as seriously and as respectfully as I possibly can, and let it

> Because it immediately led to an increase in anti-asian hate crimes. I'm asking the following as seriously and as respectfully as I possibly can, and let it be known that I abhor all crime. Was this anti-Asian hate crime story ever real, or was it a media narrative designed to bash Trump? Just to play Devil's Advocate: what if crime rates in cities where many Asians tend to live are going up in general? How would you be able to distinguish between anti-Asian hate crimes increasing, and crime in general increasing? Is the rate of crimes against Asians going up relative to the rate of crimes against say Latinos or Whites or Blacks? Is the rate of crimes against Asians increasing more or less in say Red regions that might tend to be influenced by Trump's rhetoric versus Blue regions that might be less likely to tend to listen to his rhetoric? Has the media even bothered to ask this question and analyze the data, or were they quick to instantly rush to blame Trump for any Asian that was a victim of a random crime in order to score political points. I don't know myself as it requires a lot more research than I can do right now, but what I can see as factual is that there are probably hundreds of stories about crime going up in the last couple of years for every big city. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/major-crimes-up-38-in-nyc-so-far-this-year-nypd-says/3528311/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/major-crimes-up-38-in-... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/opinion/new-york-rising-crime.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/opinion/new-york-rising-c... https://gothamist.com/news/why-are-shootings-and-murders-rise-nyc https://gothamist.com/news/why-are-shootings-and-murders-ris... Just my 2 cents. The data might not indicate what the media says it does and I would say that we should recheck all of our initial premises about the last 6 years.

manuelabeledo 5y ago
Hate crimes against AAPI went up 339% last year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/anti-asian-hate-crimes-increased-339-percent-nationwide-last-year-repo-rcna14282 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/anti-asian-hate-c... That's remarkably higher than the average increase.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  Thank you for the contribution, but the article doesn't seem to dive into the types of stats that would be necessary to answer the types of questions I asked. I will try and look deeper into some of the stats cited and their methology to get a better picture of their point of view though, thanks.
- pageandrew 5y ago
  Is there any evidence that those hate crimes were connected to people concerned about the experiments conducted by the Wuhan Institute of Virology?
  - munk-a 5y ago
    That's the kind of question that can't reasonably be answered - we don't and, I personally think, can't really track the personal motives of crimes in a logical manner since hate crimes are generally pretty illogical actions. The most legitimate response you could hope to get to such a question is some anecdotal evidence.
    - pageandrew 5y ago
      Agreed. So why do people try to stifle reasonable debate about a plausible theory by making unfalsifiable allegations tying that theory to hate crimes?
      - manuelabeledo 5y ago
        The hypothesis that links the increase of hate crimes to the idea that the virus was intentionally created and/or spread by the Chinese, is also “plausible”. The reporting of harassment and hate crimes usually involve the aggressor’s statements at the time of the occurrence, thus it is perfectly possible to link a physical or verbal attack to a motivation. There isn’t a concerted effort anywhere to stop the debate about the lab leak hypothesis, and proof of it is the widespread coverage in media, from MIT review to NYT. There is though a more unified push of such hypothesis made by right-wing outlets, like this one, FOX, or NYP, among others. And, if anything, that should give us pause, as this is more about shaping public opinion than informing.
munk-a 5y ago
I'm a Canadian American[1] living in Vancouver so I can tell you subjectively that it has seemed to be a lot more common to see anti-asian graffiti on buildings and the like - and also, objectively, anti-asian hate crimes are up in Vancouver by over 700%[2][3] - now Vancouver has a really complicated relationship with asian immigrants, it hosts a large number of RoC expats from the Chinese Revolution so there are frequently clashes between them and PRC expats (especially whenever something happens with Hong Kong) and it's also dealing with a housing crises that is made much worse by an influx of foreign capital (mainly from RoC/PRC) so I don't know if it's fair to blame COVID for all of that increase - but it's definitely dramatically out of line with previous years increases and, while Trump still is a factor up here, it's less focused specifically on the American political sphere and probably a fairer representation of "western" political sphere reactions in general. 1. I emigrated after university - I grew up in Massachusetts and Vermont and was in High School when 9/11 happened if you're curious how that gels with my previous comment. 2. Guardian Article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/vancoucer-anti-asian-hate-crimes-increase https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/vancoucer-anti... 3. Linked police report https://vancouverpoliceboard.ca/police/policeboard/agenda/2021/0218/5-1-2102P01-Year-end-2020-KPI-Report.pdf https://vancouverpoliceboard.ca/police/policeboard/agenda/20...

manuelabeledo 5y ago

Hate crimes against AAPI went up 339% last year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/anti-asian-hate-crimes-increased-339-percent-nationwide-last-year-repo-rcna14282 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/anti-asian-hate-c... That's remarkably higher than the average increase.

logicalmonster 5y ago
Thank you for the contribution, but the article doesn't seem to dive into the types of stats that would be necessary to answer the types of questions I asked. I will try and look deeper into some of the stats cited and their methology to get a better picture of their point of view though, thanks.
pageandrew 5y ago
Is there any evidence that those hate crimes were connected to people concerned about the experiments conducted by the Wuhan Institute of Virology?
- munk-a 5y ago
  That's the kind of question that can't reasonably be answered - we don't and, I personally think, can't really track the personal motives of crimes in a logical manner since hate crimes are generally pretty illogical actions. The most legitimate response you could hope to get to such a question is some anecdotal evidence.
  - pageandrew 5y ago
    Agreed. So why do people try to stifle reasonable debate about a plausible theory by making unfalsifiable allegations tying that theory to hate crimes?
    - manuelabeledo 5y ago
      The hypothesis that links the increase of hate crimes to the idea that the virus was intentionally created and/or spread by the Chinese, is also “plausible”. The reporting of harassment and hate crimes usually involve the aggressor’s statements at the time of the occurrence, thus it is perfectly possible to link a physical or verbal attack to a motivation. There isn’t a concerted effort anywhere to stop the debate about the lab leak hypothesis, and proof of it is the widespread coverage in media, from MIT review to NYT. There is though a more unified push of such hypothesis made by right-wing outlets, like this one, FOX, or NYP, among others. And, if anything, that should give us pause, as this is more about shaping public opinion than informing.

munk-a 5y ago

I'm a Canadian American[1] living in Vancouver so I can tell you subjectively that it has seemed to be a lot more common to see anti-asian graffiti on buildings and the like - and also, objectively, anti-asian hate crimes are up in Vancouver by over 700%[2][3] - now Vancouver has a really complicated relationship with asian immigrants, it hosts a large number of RoC expats from the Chinese Revolution so there are frequently clashes between them and PRC expats (especially whenever something happens with Hong Kong) and it's also dealing with a housing crises that is made much worse by an influx of foreign capital (mainly from RoC/PRC) so I don't know if it's fair to blame COVID for all of that increase - but it's definitely dramatically out of line with previous years increases and, while Trump still is a factor up here, it's less focused specifically on the American political sphere and probably a fairer representation of "western" political sphere reactions in general. 1. I emigrated after university - I grew up in Massachusetts and Vermont and was in High School when 9/11 happened if you're curious how that gels with my previous comment. 2. Guardian Article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/vancoucer-anti-asian-hate-crimes-increase https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/vancoucer-anti... 3. Linked police report https://vancouverpoliceboard.ca/police/policeboard/agenda/2021/0218/5-1-2102P01-Year-end-2020-KPI-Report.pdf https://vancouverpoliceboard.ca/police/policeboard/agenda/20...