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You can look at the elite in society and see an over-representation of men, but it's important to also look at the most downtrodden and worse off in society. Th

You can look at the elite in society and see an over-representation of men, but it's important to also look at the most downtrodden and worse off in society. The homeless; people who are the victims of violent crime; people who die in wars; people who die working shitty jobs; people who are so hopeless that they commit suicide. Perhaps even looking at things like lifespan. Men's results are bimodal: if women are forced to break through a glass ceiling to reach the elite, men are similarly forced to walk on a glass floor that might collapse at any moment. And when it does, they're fucked.

sokoloff 5y ago
Are men’s results bimodal or just much higher standard deviation? I feel like there are way, way too many men living a “normal, unremarkably good nor bad” life to sustain a bimodal conclusion.
- scarmig 5y ago
  Probably a higher standard deviation is the better way to phrase it, though it's pretty fat tailed.
wolverine876 5y ago
People keep repeating this claim, but of course that doesn't signal truth. Is there research behind it?
- scarmig 5y ago
  Yes? At least as far as all the individual points about men dying earlier in general, having higher suicide rates, greater risk of homelessness, worse educational outcomes, etc. I suppose the point of contention people would make is that men deserve it/have it coming so it's not worth discussing or treating as a political topic.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > the individual points about men dying earlier in general, having higher suicide rates, greater risk of homelessness, worse educational outcomes, etc. We certainly can find some ways in which the male population is worse off - though that doesn't establish any correlation or causation, inevitably in some ways it's true. But we need to look at the overall picture. > I suppose the point of contention people would make is that men deserve it/have it coming so it's not worth discussing or treating as a political topic. That's a pretty incredible strawman. Can you find one person saying that?
    - scarmig 5y ago
      I can list lots of ways that men are worse off, and I have done exactly that. You don't even acknowledge them besides writing them off as perhaps minor inconveniences, and ask us to look at the "overall picture" instead without even bothering to try to paint that big picture. Why is the fact that men face significant discrimination in education not part of the big picture? > Can you find one person saying that? Let's be explicit about this, since you seem intent on evading the discussion: why shouldn't we treat male-particular suffering, discrimination, and death as important topics for society to address? What possible explanation is there for you to write those issues off as not part of the big picture except for thinking that men deserve it?

sokoloff 5y ago

Are men’s results bimodal or just much higher standard deviation? I feel like there are way, way too many men living a “normal, unremarkably good nor bad” life to sustain a bimodal conclusion.

scarmig 5y ago
Probably a higher standard deviation is the better way to phrase it, though it's pretty fat tailed.

wolverine876 5y ago

People keep repeating this claim, but of course that doesn't signal truth. Is there research behind it?

scarmig 5y ago
Yes? At least as far as all the individual points about men dying earlier in general, having higher suicide rates, greater risk of homelessness, worse educational outcomes, etc. I suppose the point of contention people would make is that men deserve it/have it coming so it's not worth discussing or treating as a political topic.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > the individual points about men dying earlier in general, having higher suicide rates, greater risk of homelessness, worse educational outcomes, etc. We certainly can find some ways in which the male population is worse off - though that doesn't establish any correlation or causation, inevitably in some ways it's true. But we need to look at the overall picture. > I suppose the point of contention people would make is that men deserve it/have it coming so it's not worth discussing or treating as a political topic. That's a pretty incredible strawman. Can you find one person saying that?
  - scarmig 5y ago
    I can list lots of ways that men are worse off, and I have done exactly that. You don't even acknowledge them besides writing them off as perhaps minor inconveniences, and ask us to look at the "overall picture" instead without even bothering to try to paint that big picture. Why is the fact that men face significant discrimination in education not part of the big picture? > Can you find one person saying that? Let's be explicit about this, since you seem intent on evading the discussion: why shouldn't we treat male-particular suffering, discrimination, and death as important topics for society to address? What possible explanation is there for you to write those issues off as not part of the big picture except for thinking that men deserve it?