5 ms·

> what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? Politics is the new religion insofar as it develops moral frameworks and makes people abide by

• diordiderot 5y ago
  Well there's no such thing as 'morality', there's mostly power and sometimes law. The golden rule is a pretty easy starting point for determining which rules are fair.
• etempleton 5y ago
  Americans by and large want to be believers in…something. There is nothing more frightening than someone that really and truly believes something. There is no end to what they will do.
  • wwweston 5y ago
    Yep. A total lack of belief to the point of nihilism is a crisis of meaning, to be sure, but it tends to collapse towards either hedonism or depression rather than monomaniacal infliction of harm on the rest of the world. True determined harm usually requires ideological zeal.
    • TimTheTinker 5y ago
      > True determined harm usually requires ideological zeal. That's not what I think motivated all the US school shootings in the last 25 years. Ideological zeal that pursues actively harming others is something I don't think the US has much of, culturally speaking. No one preaches "those people need to die" or "we need to harm those people".
      • wwweston 5y ago
        It's certainly worth considering mass shootings. They're unsettling and the apparently growth in frequency is alarming, and I think you could fairly attribute them to personal crises in meaning that lead to a path of resentment ("if I'm suffering, why shouldn't others suffer too?") that does germinate into a plan to inflict arbitrary harm. Still, as far as I can tell, even with the increase in frequency these are not common events. ~600 per year. No number of them is rare enough, but imagine if even 1 in 1000 of the estimated number of Americans who suffer from major depression (around 16 million) did a mass shooting. Running amok may be the exception that proves the rule. I'd also point out that ideological zeal may play a role here. Ideology seems to underly policy of not only refusing to examine potential further restrictions on access but to broadly increasing access to arms/gear that make them easier. Characterizations of these events as mental health crises don't seem to lead to social policy supporting mental health. Certainly not the whole story, but probably plays a role in paving the way for harm.
        • etempleton 5y ago
          I would argue mass shooters do, more often than not, believe strongly in something. It might not be religion or even a traditional ideology and the shooter might not even really understand themselves what they are experiencing but I bet if you dug in deep you would see some pretty extreme views on the world, themselves or their fellow man.
        • pjc50 5y ago
          > even with the increase in frequency these are not common events. ~600 per year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_To_Prevent_This,%27_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_To_Prevent_This,%27_... The UK had one mass shooting, twenty-five years ago, and chose to end the problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre Mass shootings are a horror that the US is unwilling and unable to confront. Far too many people would simply prefer to listen to Alex Jones and imagine that it's all fake.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    • notriddle 5y ago
      People suffering a crisis of meaning might not inflict harm directly, but instead fail to stop the maniacs who do.
      • wwweston 5y ago
        Fair point! Definitely some 2nd order effects to consider.