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Outliers in what way? Outliers in terms of healthiness and fitness? Are they more or less healthy than the gymnasts? Even if they are outliers, it's an illustra

Outliers in what way? Outliers in terms of healthiness and fitness? Are they more or less healthy than the gymnasts? Even if they are outliers, it's an illustrative example - gymnasts are extreme outliers as well even among athletes, so why isn't that an issue? I would suggest that while the lens of evaluating physical attractiveness in most of the western world currently largely aligns with physical fitness, this is a relatively recent development and far from universal. Even a few generations ago I would suspect that the majority of current female Olympic level athletes would have been graded far lower on the attractiveness scale than we currently might.

WalterBright 5y ago
> Outliers in what way? I've never met one in real life. Anyway you want to look at it, such levels of muscle development is highly unusual. I doubt it's healthy either. > I would suggest that while the lens of evaluating physical attractiveness in most of the western world currently largely aligns with physical fitness, this is a relatively recent development and far from universal. I don't believe that. I don't really have a choice as to what I find attractive. I don't believe you do, either. For example, I am never going to find "heroin chic" attractive, no matter how much the fashion industry pushes it. Some women like bald men, some don't, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.
- valarauko 5y ago
  > such levels of muscle development is highly unusual. I doubt it's healthy either. I think that holds true for almost all female athletes, does it not? Every female Summer Olympic level athlete I can think of has very visible musculature far in excess of what you might see in otherwise 'attractive' women. In terms of ultimate health outcomes, I am not sure. I doubt any top level athlete fares well health wise long term. > I don't really have a choice as to what I find attractive. I don't believe you do, either. I think we're coming at this differently - you're referring to what you might find attractive, and I'm trying to consider an attractiveness grading scale. For example, as a gay man, I find both male shotput athletes as well as male gymnasts very attractive, but can at the same time appreciate that on my attempt at an objective attractiveness scale I might grade them differently - and other gay men might grade them very differently. Similarly, I feel absolutely no attraction to female athletes and can still consider them objectively attractive.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    There's a point of diminishing returns. Once you're past a certain level of fitness, more doesn't add much.

WalterBright 5y ago

> Outliers in what way? I've never met one in real life. Anyway you want to look at it, such levels of muscle development is highly unusual. I doubt it's healthy either. > I would suggest that while the lens of evaluating physical attractiveness in most of the western world currently largely aligns with physical fitness, this is a relatively recent development and far from universal. I don't believe that. I don't really have a choice as to what I find attractive. I don't believe you do, either. For example, I am never going to find "heroin chic" attractive, no matter how much the fashion industry pushes it. Some women like bald men, some don't, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

valarauko 5y ago
> such levels of muscle development is highly unusual. I doubt it's healthy either. I think that holds true for almost all female athletes, does it not? Every female Summer Olympic level athlete I can think of has very visible musculature far in excess of what you might see in otherwise 'attractive' women. In terms of ultimate health outcomes, I am not sure. I doubt any top level athlete fares well health wise long term. > I don't really have a choice as to what I find attractive. I don't believe you do, either. I think we're coming at this differently - you're referring to what you might find attractive, and I'm trying to consider an attractiveness grading scale. For example, as a gay man, I find both male shotput athletes as well as male gymnasts very attractive, but can at the same time appreciate that on my attempt at an objective attractiveness scale I might grade them differently - and other gay men might grade them very differently. Similarly, I feel absolutely no attraction to female athletes and can still consider them objectively attractive.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  There's a point of diminishing returns. Once you're past a certain level of fitness, more doesn't add much.