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Sikorsky was attempting to bolt a helicopter atop a fixed-wing aircraft. Rather than the best of both worlds they wound up with the worst problems of each. A

Sikorsky was attempting to bolt a helicopter atop a fixed-wing aircraft. Rather than the best of both worlds they wound up with the worst problems of each. A more interesting idea was the F-104 VTOL concept. Rather than put helo blades on a fighter, take the delta wing of a fighter and spin it like a helicopter blade. Take off with it spinning then fix it in place when flying forwards, potentially at supersonic speeds. The concept was never built but would have avoided the inherent inefficiencies of Sikorsky's approach. And a supersonic rotary-wing aircraft would be very cool. https://elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/f-104-vtol-project-the-icing-on-the-cake/ https://elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/f-104-... https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-f-104-%C2%AB-starfighter-%C2%BB-vtol-projects.431/ https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-f-104-%C2%...

gorgoiler 5y ago
If you think it’s cool with the .uk site, could you link directly to some of the images in the thread? They currently require a forum login.
multiplegeorges 5y ago
I'm not so sure that F-104 concept would've worked out. It wasn't called the Widowmaker for nothing and the added weight for the rotating wing assembly would've been quite substantial. As for bolting a helicopter to a fixed wing aircraft, they bolted two rotors to the V-22 and it's working out pretty well, despite early, deadly failures. Also, both the SB-1 Defiant helicopter and the S-97 Raider are in development for fast helicopters. But, the X-wing concept looks like the coolest one of them all. I would've loved to see it fly. It could have enabled city to city fast transport without the need for local, urban runways.
- trhway 5y ago
  >they bolted two rotors to the V-22 and it's working out pretty well, despite early, deadly failures. my favorite which seems to have worked much better (and one can say was a preview of the minimum what one can expect from the current Cambrian explosion of modern multicopters) yet didn't make it into production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_X-22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_X-22
  - multiplegeorges 5y ago
    Yeah, that's a beautiful aircraft. The ducted fans look more modern and sleek despite being decades older than the V-22.
Terry_Roll 5y ago
I'd agree. Its the transition from rotating blades with little to no forward motion to full forward motion and no rotating blades which appears to be the biggest cost hurdle. I dont think much can beat the Osprey design. So the metrics/requirements as I see it is. Ascent/Descent speed. Forward flight speed. Carry capacity. I cant find any VTO data, but the Bell Boeing Osprey has similar properties albeit 30-40knots slower on the forward motion. However, the Osprey can carry alot more which is a factor for these things namely more than 2-3times more weight than the x-wing. Over the years military equipment weights have increased so you need transporters which can carry more whilst maintaining a good forward motion speed. A future upgrade path for the Osprey is swapping the rotating blades for jet engines which could increase the forward motion speed a bit more. The idea is out there on Buzz Light Year ironically!
Animats 5y ago
A similar concept has worked well for drones.[1] That's an electric quadrotor VTOL with wings. It transitions to a fuel-powered prop for ranges in hundreds of kilometers. The two-blade electric props stop pointed fore and aft when in fixed-wing mode, for minimal air resistance. There are multiple manufacturers of such aircraft. NASA has been trying out variations on this theme.[2] Package delivery up to 25Kg or so should work. Human-carrying designs are possible but may not be practical. [1] https://youtu.be/eyEW8mAJ5a8 https://youtu.be/eyEW8mAJ5a8 [2] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20205000636/downloads/2021-08-20-eVTOL-White-Paper-Final_V48.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20205000636/downloads/20...

gorgoiler 5y ago

If you think it’s cool with the .uk site, could you link directly to some of the images in the thread? They currently require a forum login.

multiplegeorges 5y ago

I'm not so sure that F-104 concept would've worked out. It wasn't called the Widowmaker for nothing and the added weight for the rotating wing assembly would've been quite substantial. As for bolting a helicopter to a fixed wing aircraft, they bolted two rotors to the V-22 and it's working out pretty well, despite early, deadly failures. Also, both the SB-1 Defiant helicopter and the S-97 Raider are in development for fast helicopters. But, the X-wing concept looks like the coolest one of them all. I would've loved to see it fly. It could have enabled city to city fast transport without the need for local, urban runways.

trhway 5y ago
>they bolted two rotors to the V-22 and it's working out pretty well, despite early, deadly failures. my favorite which seems to have worked much better (and one can say was a preview of the minimum what one can expect from the current Cambrian explosion of modern multicopters) yet didn't make it into production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_X-22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_X-22
- multiplegeorges 5y ago
  Yeah, that's a beautiful aircraft. The ducted fans look more modern and sleek despite being decades older than the V-22.

Terry_Roll 5y ago

I'd agree. Its the transition from rotating blades with little to no forward motion to full forward motion and no rotating blades which appears to be the biggest cost hurdle. I dont think much can beat the Osprey design. So the metrics/requirements as I see it is. Ascent/Descent speed. Forward flight speed. Carry capacity. I cant find any VTO data, but the Bell Boeing Osprey has similar properties albeit 30-40knots slower on the forward motion. However, the Osprey can carry alot more which is a factor for these things namely more than 2-3times more weight than the x-wing. Over the years military equipment weights have increased so you need transporters which can carry more whilst maintaining a good forward motion speed. A future upgrade path for the Osprey is swapping the rotating blades for jet engines which could increase the forward motion speed a bit more. The idea is out there on Buzz Light Year ironically!

Animats 5y ago

A similar concept has worked well for drones.[1] That's an electric quadrotor VTOL with wings. It transitions to a fuel-powered prop for ranges in hundreds of kilometers. The two-blade electric props stop pointed fore and aft when in fixed-wing mode, for minimal air resistance. There are multiple manufacturers of such aircraft. NASA has been trying out variations on this theme.[2] Package delivery up to 25Kg or so should work. Human-carrying designs are possible but may not be practical. [1] https://youtu.be/eyEW8mAJ5a8 https://youtu.be/eyEW8mAJ5a8 [2] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20205000636/downloads/2021-08-20-eVTOL-White-Paper-Final_V48.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20205000636/downloads/20...