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I'm a woman software engineer, and I recognize every one of those as a word, which I think was the criterion being measured. (There are a few on each side I can

I'm a woman software engineer, and I recognize every one of those as a word, which I think was the criterion being measured. (There are a few on each side I can't define but have definitely seen.) I'm mostly floored by how many of the textile words people here don't recognize, to the point of thinking they're "fake words." Have you never shopped for textiles for your house or apartment? I mean, espadrille, sure, that's a woman's shoe guys might not ever see the word for. But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch?

rambojazz 5y ago
You recognize all of them? You have superpowers! I only recognized 1, maybe 2 of the female words. When I buy textile stuff I only look for a couple of fabrics that I already know, simply because I don't want to enter another rabbit hole. I think this is also how most people shop about stuff that they need but don't really care much about.
saberience 5y ago
I think that’s the point of the article :)
kelnos 5y ago
> But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch? I recognized chenille (but couldn't remember what it meant, outside of knowing it was textile-related), but I'd never heard of damask or jacquard before. I do own my own home, but actually don't have curtains (blinds/shades instead). I do have a couch (three of them!), and these words never came up. I was just given giant books of fabric swatches, and I chose by look and feel. I don't recall any of them having descriptive names with technical terms, just a marketing name and item number.
- Wiseacre 5y ago
  Are you sure you aren't confusing chenille for Chanel? I made that mistake.
showerst 5y ago
Guy here -- I vaguely recognized most of the fabrics, but I've bought plenty of couches and never shopped for a fabric by name, I just find a nice looking thing and flip through the swatches book until I find one I like. The only one there that's really recognizable by name in male clothes maybe is chambray. I've never bought curtains, only blinds. I recognized espadrilles because they make those for guys, but they're not common.
- ksenzee 5y ago
  I had no idea they made espadrilles for men! (eta: or that they called men's shoes like that espadrilles.)
  - showerst 5y ago
    I only know them because I shop at huckberry, but maybe they're just winging it =). It seems like Toms makes espadrilles for men that were popular for a hot minute there.
  - Lio 5y ago
    Yeah, Don Johnson used to wear them on Miami Vice back in the day.
brimble 5y ago
Guys (broadly) don't care what the name of the fabric on their furniture is, or what their curtains are made of, and do not shop using those terms. Even getting very slightly into male fashion has put me far ahead of most guys as far as knowing words common in male fashion. The vast majority of guys don't give a damn what "twill" is, or "bluchers", let alone what you call the kind of uphostry on their couch. I recognized some of the fabric words. Were I not married, I would have recognized far fewer. I couldn't have told you what most of them actually mean, just that they're to do with fabric. [EDIT] In fact, on reflection, I find it surprising that women (generally) shop for furniture based on anything to do with the kind of fabric on them, or would be particularly likely to be able to tell you what kind of fabric is on their furniture. I've always known women to shop for uphostered furniture the same way guys do, which is by looking at options until they see something that looks OK, then sitting on it to test. Curtains are another story. I'm pretty sure my wife does put in fabric names when searching for curtains, and might be able to name what some of ours are. Shopping for uphostered furniture based on fabric type seems more like a rich/poor divide than male/female, to me. Like, it doesn't even get interesting until you're way out of most people's price range, does it?
- deleted 5y ago
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- rcoveson 5y ago
  > Shopping for uphostered furniture based on fabric type seems more like a rich/poor divide than male/female, to me. Like, it doesn't even get interesting until you're way out of most people's price range, does it? That doesn't stop car people who can only own a single, entry-level car from caring about all sorts of dimensions that don't meaningfully affect the boring commuter experience. And each of those dimensions has vocabulary words associated with it, which adds to the fun. If you feel a connection with a domain, be it furniture or computer hardware, you learn all the words and form lots of impractical opinions (again, because fun). It's not exclusive to rich people. All the fabric, fashion, and color stuff probably has all sorts of cultural implications. "Seersucker" just "screams" "summer", or something. Stuff like that. It's fun. But you only have space for so much of it in your head, so with all the other categories of things, you just go based on surface-level experience. Maybe there's a correlation between wealth and the number of topics you have lots of highly-specific opinions about? But my guess based on experience is that it's a personality trait independent of wealth.
CoastalCoder 5y ago
As a male software engineer, married and homeowner for 25+ years, I can honestly say I know almost none of those fabric-related terms. As in, don't even remember hearing them before. I hardly even think about curtains, couch covers, etc. At most it's briefly, when we're shopping for that stuff. I'm super happy to leave those details up to my wife, who cares about them more than I do.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  Yep, I purchased all the furniture for my apartment last year. The level of detail I could tell you would be "medium brown wood table that looks pretty nice" "chair made from laminated wood slices". Certainly couldn't tell you what kind of wood or what the color is specifically called.
nverno 5y ago
I actually thought it was a study in a foreign language until getting to the bottom half. I did just buy a carpet the other day, but I don't think that involved any of those textile words.
- renaudg 5y ago
  In a way, it is. Most of these words are French.
golergka 5y ago
> Have you never shopped for textiles for your house or apartment? No, never, and never plan on doing it. I currently rent, live alone and don't care. If I ever move in with someone again and that person cares, they will make all the decisions themselves, and if they don't, we'll just default to whatever's already in the apartment or hire interior designer if we'll be renovating. And that said, I'm still an outlier in male population because I like male fashion, obsess with Rick Owens, Margiela, Alexander McQueen and some local brands, have my nails painted and wear a lot of accessories.
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EugeneOZ 5y ago
My wife is a dressmaker so I know every word you mentioned.
ReactiveJelly 5y ago
As a trans woman (assigned male at birth, lived as a boy / guy for 20+ years) - I barely know what "textile" is. It means "fabric", right? It's the thing that textile factories make. > Do you not have curtains or a couch? The house has the same curtains it had when we moved in. They're ugly, and I just ignore them. Except for the front window, where my spouse changed them for some reason. My old apartment also had the same curtains it always had. I have 3 couch-ish objects: - A $100 futon that I bought when I first moved out to use as a combo bed / couch. My spouse also replaced the mattress on there, probably with something cheap off Amazon. - A very cheap loveseat of unknown origin that a friend gave me. - An old sleeper couch from my parents' house that they didn't want. I think Jacquard is the guy who invented the loom that they teach about in every CS 101 class. But no, I don't know what damask and Chenille are. I actually love clothes shopping! I just don't think about furniture. It's so heavy and bulky. I love buying dresses but I don't think about fabrics. I know there's cotton, and denim, and fake leather, and then there's fabrics I never think about. I don't decorate the house, I decorate myself. Sparingly. Edit: For shoes I have "boots", "sandals", "sneakers", and "heels". I go to the thrift store and see what looks good and fits, and then I buy it. Sometimes I buy new shoes too, but I don't like dress clothes, so I just eyeball it without thinking about names.
- prionassembly 5y ago
  Respectfully, can I ask a couple questions? - Do you see yourself as a "new" or "recent" woman who's learning about female things now? (E.g. did you know what a pessary was? Did you read women's magazines in the before times?) - Did your preferred sex (e.g. women for straight males) remain the same? Do you identify as straight or gay (or none of the above?) It's none of my business, other than it helps me situate you (and maybe inductively other trans women) in these male-female ML things.
  - ReactiveJelly 5y ago
    Sure, I love questions. I still don't know what a pessary is. I didn't really read women's magazines before I transitioned, and I still don't. I feel fine being a tomboy with "guy" interests. It's not an end goal of mine to go "stealth" (That is, pass as cis 100% of the time) or fit in to any female-coded social group in particular. Transitioning is something I do for myself, so presenting feminine but still being a little bit "masculine" in my interests and hobbies just doesn't bother me. I've always been attracted to women, so I went from being a straight guy to being a lesbian. There's a few specific heterosexual scenarios where I can identify with the woman now, but not enough to say I'm attracted to men in general. > it helps me situate you (and maybe inductively other trans women) in these male-female ML things. Yeah I'm definitely speaking for myself here. The only things that are likely to be true of all trans women is that they use (or want to use, if they're still in the closet) she/her pronouns, and that they were not assigned female at birth. Everything else can vary: - Lots of trans people want to be stealth. It's safer on average, but I live in a queer-friendly town - Not everyone wants to reclaim "queer" but personally I don't want to type out LGBTQIAA+ every time... - Some trans people report that their sexuality changes (or they realize they're actually asexual) after they begin transitioning or after they begin hormone therapy. It isn't clear what percent of this is caused by the hormones and what percent is purely psychological. - Most trans women don't say things like "I used to be a guy". I don't have an internal sense of gender, so I don't feel like the common story of "I was always a woman on the inside" applies to me, even though it applies to many trans women. When I was younger, people assumed I was male and I was fine with it, so I don't feel wrong to say I used to be a boy or used to be a guy. I transitioned when I decided that I didn't need an internal sense of gender - If I wanted to be a woman on the outside, that's all I needed, and maybe for me in particular, I only have an outside.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
>> espadrille, sure, that's a woman's shoe guys might not ever see the word for. But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch? Ironically, Espadrille is the only word on that shortened list I ever heard of... but I think mostly because in my country its definition was expanded - certainly there were tons of Espadrilles for men. That may or many not be universal. Literally Everything else on the purple list... no clue. I do have curtains and a couch. FWIW I am a home owner in my 3rd owned residence (Condo, small house, medium house). I have never ever ever geeked out or cared about their material, by name, so I suppose there's a world still awaiting for me :) Anyhoo, I do feel that the two lists are not symmetrical. It feels that one is fairly clustered around fashion/style/materials, whereas the other, while still having common threads, has technology, science, physics, video games, and nerdery. But is that exposing simply another kind of bias in me? Because the "male" words are familiar to me, I see more diversity in them than the unfamiliar words? Food for thought, but I still think bushido, shemale and terraflops are different categories regardless of gender :D Fwiw, my classification: Aileron - airplanes; howizter, bushido, katana - military; shemale - porn; strafe - FPS/gaming presumably; Yakuza - gangs; boson, milliamp,gauss, piezoelectricity, etc - physics; checksum, teraflop - comsci; parsec... physics, technically, but SciFi, practically :P vs: fashion/clothes/hair: peplum, boucle, ruche, chignon, tulle, chenille, voile, bandeau, kohl,espadrille, whipstitch, sateen, jacquard, damask, chambray Verbena, Fressia - flower pessary, doula - health
- brimble 5y ago
  > strafe - FPS/gaming presumably; Could be the reason so many guys know it, but it's another term with military connections. I was aware of it from military sci fi before I ever encountered it in a gaming context.
  - _tom_ 5y ago
    It's used in the Star Trek TOS episode "Shore Leave". That's where I learned it. Long predates most video games and military sci-fi.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    Oh for sure. It's possible I've learned it from WW2 movies or stories initially. Today though, it's such an inherent concept in video games, I feel it brings it from a abstract concept to a more practical reality.
tluyben2 5y ago
Curtain blocks all light, couch needs to be comfortable for long stretches. What more do I need to know? My wife knew all words, male and female. She is a writer and translator and about some tech stuff I talk to much. But she couldn’t care less what the couch or curtains are made off. She doesn’t even care too much about the color; ‘not black or white please’.
gfd 5y ago
I was shopping for curtains recently but the stuff that I cared about were the technical specifications: how much light it blocks, thermal properties, noise reduction, etc. What should I be looking for instead?
- brimble 5y ago
  Ditto. As a guy I know three kinds of curtain: "black out", kinda blocks light sort of, and lets most of the light through.
lhorie 5y ago
> Have you never shopped for textiles I mean, this[0] meme pretty much sums it up [0] https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/441/150/c01.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/441/150/c01...
- brimble 5y ago
  From the image: "guys really live in apartments like this and don't see any issue" And we mean it. I see only two problems: 1) no extra seating for pals—c'mon, at least add a couple bean bags and a couple folding trays (in fairness, those may be put away off-frame), if you're not even playing local multiplayer or having friends over to watch TV/movies, why even bother with this much? 2) it'll probably turn off any woman who sees it. So not enough seating and women won't like it, are the only reasons I wouldn't be totally OK living like that if I were single. [EDIT] I spotted a third problem! There's not a Gamecube or N64 or Dreamcast sitting on the floor halfway between the TV and chair.
  - ReactiveJelly 5y ago
    The chair-TV axis should run the other way, so you can walk from the door to the kitchenette without bumping into the chair. Other than that yeah... it's fine... I'm not gonna shame people for being minimal.
    - brimble 5y ago
      After thinking about this a bit, I don't think the minimalism is the problem. I think the main problem is that it looks both cheap and "low". TVs are "low" and having one so prominent makes the room look low-class. The room itself looks like a cheap apartment. The fix is to buy more stuff for the room—and especially to put on the walls—to compete with the TV so it's less prominent, or to keep things very minimal but replace the TV (too "low") with something else and re-do the entire room (chair included) to fit some minimalist trendy design. Like if this were an ultra-modern concrete room or something traditional-Japanese themed (walls, windows, flooring and all) it'd be Instagram worthy, even if it were just as minimal—but those are expensive looks to attain. No one would be saying the sleek designer room looked unlivable because it didn't have pictures on the walls or curtains or more furniture. Reminds me of Rusty's apartment in True Detective. His minimalism is (I think it's fair to say) at least in part a philisophical choice, which could look cool or respectable or impressive coupled with surroundings to make it so, but because it's a normal, cheap apartment with normal, cheap stuff (and not much of it), it just looks... well, cheap. That he doesn't care about making it nicer-looking and more in line with impressive takes on minimalism probably says something about his character—a preference for substance over appearance, for one, and maybe some other things. Or how "minimalism" trends in pop culture are often coupled with a consumerist focus on expensive, nice-looking items that'll still impress and signal certain things about the owner, while the same thing on a small budget usually looks far less impressive (because it's mostly cheap stuff). Tiny house vs. trailer home or RV. All that kind of thing. That the good couldn't have been acquired cheaply is about as important is its practical functionality, to certain buyers. Nobody wants to look at Wal-Mart minimalism, which is what this room is.
Tade0 5y ago
> Do you not have curtains or a couch? Couch is couch. Anyway I have two sisters and remember not understanding how and when did they learn those words. I do recognize some of those words, but as a non-native English speaker I was surprised about their spelling.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  Don't worry, native English speakers are also surprised about their spelling.
- astrange 5y ago
  Most of these words have unusual spelling since we got them from French.
simsla 5y ago
Recently bought new curtains, and I selected on size, colour and made sure they were blackout curtains. For the life of me (literally) I wouldn't be able to name the fabric.
dec0dedab0de 5y ago
...Do you not have curtains or a couch? I've owned a home for over 15 years, and I still don't have curtains because it is too overwhelming. Current couch is Ikea, so I just wrote down the number, next couch will be leather. Edit: One thing I know about fabric is that linen is made from flax, in 2016 I took a tour at a revolutionary war house where they used to make linen. I only went in because there was a pokemon in it, but it was still very interesting.
yibg 5y ago
I’m male. My vocabulary for couch material are: leather and fabric. That’s about it.
skykooler 5y ago
Not only do I have a couch, I made it and upholstered it myself. But I don't know what fabric it's covered with - it was just labeled as "upholstery fabric" at Joanne Fabrics, and I picked it because it looked sturdy and would fit with the room's color scheme.
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scotty79 5y ago
Don't be surprised that gender that mainly dresses in jeans and t-shirts doesn't recognize many textiles beyond denim and cotton fabric.
JabavuAdams 5y ago
> Have you never shopped for textiles for your house or apartment? 45 years old, and no. Why would I do that? All my furniture and drapes are pretty much IKEA. I have some interest in clothing, but aside from the occasional Hallowe'en death cloak don't know much about fabrics other than cotton/polyester/nylon. A minute shopping is a minute wasted, in terms of my interests. I don't want to spend any time thinking about it unless I have to, in order to accomplish some other goal. I tend to standardize on colours / outfits / style to make sure I don't spend much mental energy on fashion or shopping, while still not looking like I don't "get" it.
- deleted 5y ago
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- hongsy 5y ago
  Dude you need to get a life
samgtx 5y ago
- rjbwork 5y ago
  I don't think anyone wonders why, lol.
- Banana699 5y ago
  Imagine being so ignorant and self-centered you think that men not showing the same interest in something that doesn't interest them is them lacking style. I guess women and girls not liking programming and cars as much as men is proof they're technically illiterate and have no appreciation for science or engineering.
meragrin_ 5y ago
> But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch? I'm pretty utility driven when it comes to curtains or couches. I'm just looking for something which does what it is supposed to and is not hideous. How does knowing damask, jacquard, and chenille help with determining if curtains block light and a couch is comfortable when I sit in it?
rory 5y ago
Any curtains I've ever bought are "the ones they have at Home Depot." Fabrics with fancy French names seem like rich people things, regardless of gender, no?
- ksenzee 5y ago
  Hm. I don't think it's a rich people thing, really. Most of these words are describing the way the fabric is made, not the material it's made out of. A lot of guys own a chambray shirt, and if you google "damask tablecloth" they'll probably look familiar from restaurants. "Chenille stem" is the craft-store word for "pipe cleaner." You can find sateen sheets at Walmart and Target. Voile and tulle are not masculine fabrics, and I wouldn't necessarily expect a guy to know what they were, but they're the kind of thing a high-school prom dress might be made out of.
wickoff 5y ago
What do you mean textiles? We just buy the gray-ish ones.
fleddr 5y ago
I think during the reading of your comment I spent more time thinking about fabrics than the total effort I spent on it in my entire life.
gred 5y ago
It's fun to discover the bubbles that we live in. I know "espadrille" because a man in an Agatha Christie novel was described as wearing them, so I looked it up (this was years ago). If the same book had named the kind of cloth used on a couch, tablecloth or curtain, I definitely would not have been interested enough to look it up -- for all I know there may have actually been such a description in the book! I would have guessed that "damask" might have something to do with the damasquine steel used in weapons manufacturing.
qubitcoder 5y ago
Even as a gay man (and software engineer), I only barely recognized a couple of the female words from studying French. Otherwise I was clueless. I knew 100% of the male words, and use most of them regularly given my hobbies and interests (excluding the Japanese words and "shemale", which seems like slang uttered by young people, if I had to guess?). And, no, I've never shopped for textiles. "Jacquard" is certainly very familiar given its relation to computing--and having lived and worked in Lyon. My parents even worked in textiles growing up, but I was nonetheless clueless. TIL that I own a few nice Chambray shirts, courtesy of Google ;-)
alar44 5y ago
Textiles? No I don't shop for "textiles". I buy clothing, furniture, and curtains and I really don't care what any of them are made of as long as it's not snakes, fire, or nails.
- ksenzee 5y ago
  That's like saying "no I don't shop for 'electronics' whatever that means, I buy phones and TVs and computers." The umbrella term is what it is, whether you know it or not.
  - Talanes 5y ago
    If you completely ignore the context of the conversation, sure. The way "textiles" was thrown out implied that by shopping for textiles, one should know and care about the actual material. The reply was asserting that they judge the individual items by their quality, not by knowing the material.
JetAlone 5y ago
Our beauty is in utility. EDIT: Our other beauty is in Japan.
xdennis 5y ago
> damask I think more men would recognize the Damascus steel (apparently named after damask fabric).
brailsafe 5y ago
I feel about the same actually as a male software engineer. Have definitely at least seen most of the male dominated words, but could only approximate their definition. Not a single one of the female dominated list. Not once have I heard any of them. I'd be familiar with some bigger textile types and wood species like vinyl and teak, carpet lol, but that's about as far as it goes.
junon 5y ago
I'm a gay dude who cares a tad bit more than the average male about this stuff and even I have no idea what those are. I can guarantee you most guys don't know what those are, speaking from anecdotal experience. Gay or otherwise.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  Damn, I came here to say gay guys probably know a lot of the female words. As a bi guy I knew most of the female ones, but I'm very into my fashion and read a lot of female fashion mags and watch things like Project Runway!
- ksenzee 5y ago
  My gay BFF ex-husband knows his fabrics better than I do. YMMV.
  - butwhywhyoh 5y ago
    That's probably why you're surprised that men don't know these words. You were married to a gay man.
    - ksenzee 5y ago
      No, I'm used to correcting for that. I was judging it by whether someone like my brother or the guys on my team would know it. I assumed they all would. Oops.
microtherion 5y ago
I buy my curtains & couches by look and feel. For pants, "denim" will go a long way. For shirts, I've learned to care a bit about fabric, because there are properties (whether you'll sweat in them; whether they need to be ironed all the time to look OK) that are not evident from look and feel alone. To be sure, I recognized most of the fabric words as words (wouldn't have been sure about "sateen" as opposed to "satin"), but they only one I could have defined was "tulle". And in my part of the world, espadrilles are not infrequently worn by men. But it's funny how people who are utterly indifferent about fabrics can sometimes hold forth at length about the relative merits of PLA, PETG, ABS, PVA, or TPU ;-)
firstplacelast 5y ago
I’m a gay male software engineer and had the same experience as you, I knew most of those words and the few I didn’t I had heard a few times but couldn’t define off the top of my head. And yes, lots of guys (even gay) just have zero clue about textiles. Also a small nitpick, an espadrille is not a woman’s shoe, it’s a style as far as I’m aware. I have a pair I wear in the summer.
- ksenzee 5y ago
  Yeah I stand corrected on espadrilles, and I was married to a gay guy for years so I should totally have known that one.
kalleboo 5y ago
I’m pretty sure our curtains are made out of some sort of plastic (polyester or w/e) since they looked good enough and had the best sound deadening/insulation properties
wrycoder 5y ago
My wife doesn’t do software. The only word she didn’t know was “checksum”.

rambojazz 5y ago

You recognize all of them? You have superpowers! I only recognized 1, maybe 2 of the female words. When I buy textile stuff I only look for a couple of fabrics that I already know, simply because I don't want to enter another rabbit hole. I think this is also how most people shop about stuff that they need but don't really care much about.

saberience 5y ago

I think that’s the point of the article :)

kelnos 5y ago

> But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch? I recognized chenille (but couldn't remember what it meant, outside of knowing it was textile-related), but I'd never heard of damask or jacquard before. I do own my own home, but actually don't have curtains (blinds/shades instead). I do have a couch (three of them!), and these words never came up. I was just given giant books of fabric swatches, and I chose by look and feel. I don't recall any of them having descriptive names with technical terms, just a marketing name and item number.

Wiseacre 5y ago
Are you sure you aren't confusing chenille for Chanel? I made that mistake.

showerst 5y ago

Guy here -- I vaguely recognized most of the fabrics, but I've bought plenty of couches and never shopped for a fabric by name, I just find a nice looking thing and flip through the swatches book until I find one I like. The only one there that's really recognizable by name in male clothes maybe is chambray. I've never bought curtains, only blinds. I recognized espadrilles because they make those for guys, but they're not common.

ksenzee 5y ago
I had no idea they made espadrilles for men! (eta: or that they called men's shoes like that espadrilles.)
- showerst 5y ago
  I only know them because I shop at huckberry, but maybe they're just winging it =). It seems like Toms makes espadrilles for men that were popular for a hot minute there.
- Lio 5y ago
  Yeah, Don Johnson used to wear them on Miami Vice back in the day.

brimble 5y ago

Guys (broadly) don't care what the name of the fabric on their furniture is, or what their curtains are made of, and do not shop using those terms. Even getting very slightly into male fashion has put me far ahead of most guys as far as knowing words common in male fashion. The vast majority of guys don't give a damn what "twill" is, or "bluchers", let alone what you call the kind of uphostry on their couch. I recognized some of the fabric words. Were I not married, I would have recognized far fewer. I couldn't have told you what most of them actually mean, just that they're to do with fabric. [EDIT] In fact, on reflection, I find it surprising that women (generally) shop for furniture based on anything to do with the kind of fabric on them, or would be particularly likely to be able to tell you what kind of fabric is on their furniture. I've always known women to shop for uphostered furniture the same way guys do, which is by looking at options until they see something that looks OK, then sitting on it to test. Curtains are another story. I'm pretty sure my wife does put in fabric names when searching for curtains, and might be able to name what some of ours are. Shopping for uphostered furniture based on fabric type seems more like a rich/poor divide than male/female, to me. Like, it doesn't even get interesting until you're way out of most people's price range, does it?

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rcoveson 5y ago
> Shopping for uphostered furniture based on fabric type seems more like a rich/poor divide than male/female, to me. Like, it doesn't even get interesting until you're way out of most people's price range, does it? That doesn't stop car people who can only own a single, entry-level car from caring about all sorts of dimensions that don't meaningfully affect the boring commuter experience. And each of those dimensions has vocabulary words associated with it, which adds to the fun. If you feel a connection with a domain, be it furniture or computer hardware, you learn all the words and form lots of impractical opinions (again, because fun). It's not exclusive to rich people. All the fabric, fashion, and color stuff probably has all sorts of cultural implications. "Seersucker" just "screams" "summer", or something. Stuff like that. It's fun. But you only have space for so much of it in your head, so with all the other categories of things, you just go based on surface-level experience. Maybe there's a correlation between wealth and the number of topics you have lots of highly-specific opinions about? But my guess based on experience is that it's a personality trait independent of wealth.

CoastalCoder 5y ago

As a male software engineer, married and homeowner for 25+ years, I can honestly say I know almost none of those fabric-related terms. As in, don't even remember hearing them before. I hardly even think about curtains, couch covers, etc. At most it's briefly, when we're shopping for that stuff. I'm super happy to leave those details up to my wife, who cares about them more than I do.

Gigachad 5y ago
Yep, I purchased all the furniture for my apartment last year. The level of detail I could tell you would be "medium brown wood table that looks pretty nice" "chair made from laminated wood slices". Certainly couldn't tell you what kind of wood or what the color is specifically called.

nverno 5y ago

I actually thought it was a study in a foreign language until getting to the bottom half. I did just buy a carpet the other day, but I don't think that involved any of those textile words.

renaudg 5y ago
In a way, it is. Most of these words are French.

golergka 5y ago

> Have you never shopped for textiles for your house or apartment? No, never, and never plan on doing it. I currently rent, live alone and don't care. If I ever move in with someone again and that person cares, they will make all the decisions themselves, and if they don't, we'll just default to whatever's already in the apartment or hire interior designer if we'll be renovating. And that said, I'm still an outlier in male population because I like male fashion, obsess with Rick Owens, Margiela, Alexander McQueen and some local brands, have my nails painted and wear a lot of accessories.

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EugeneOZ 5y ago

My wife is a dressmaker so I know every word you mentioned.

ReactiveJelly 5y ago

As a trans woman (assigned male at birth, lived as a boy / guy for 20+ years) - I barely know what "textile" is. It means "fabric", right? It's the thing that textile factories make. > Do you not have curtains or a couch? The house has the same curtains it had when we moved in. They're ugly, and I just ignore them. Except for the front window, where my spouse changed them for some reason. My old apartment also had the same curtains it always had. I have 3 couch-ish objects: - A $100 futon that I bought when I first moved out to use as a combo bed / couch. My spouse also replaced the mattress on there, probably with something cheap off Amazon. - A very cheap loveseat of unknown origin that a friend gave me. - An old sleeper couch from my parents' house that they didn't want. I think Jacquard is the guy who invented the loom that they teach about in every CS 101 class. But no, I don't know what damask and Chenille are. I actually love clothes shopping! I just don't think about furniture. It's so heavy and bulky. I love buying dresses but I don't think about fabrics. I know there's cotton, and denim, and fake leather, and then there's fabrics I never think about. I don't decorate the house, I decorate myself. Sparingly. Edit: For shoes I have "boots", "sandals", "sneakers", and "heels". I go to the thrift store and see what looks good and fits, and then I buy it. Sometimes I buy new shoes too, but I don't like dress clothes, so I just eyeball it without thinking about names.

prionassembly 5y ago
Respectfully, can I ask a couple questions? - Do you see yourself as a "new" or "recent" woman who's learning about female things now? (E.g. did you know what a pessary was? Did you read women's magazines in the before times?) - Did your preferred sex (e.g. women for straight males) remain the same? Do you identify as straight or gay (or none of the above?) It's none of my business, other than it helps me situate you (and maybe inductively other trans women) in these male-female ML things.
- ReactiveJelly 5y ago
  Sure, I love questions. I still don't know what a pessary is. I didn't really read women's magazines before I transitioned, and I still don't. I feel fine being a tomboy with "guy" interests. It's not an end goal of mine to go "stealth" (That is, pass as cis 100% of the time) or fit in to any female-coded social group in particular. Transitioning is something I do for myself, so presenting feminine but still being a little bit "masculine" in my interests and hobbies just doesn't bother me. I've always been attracted to women, so I went from being a straight guy to being a lesbian. There's a few specific heterosexual scenarios where I can identify with the woman now, but not enough to say I'm attracted to men in general. > it helps me situate you (and maybe inductively other trans women) in these male-female ML things. Yeah I'm definitely speaking for myself here. The only things that are likely to be true of all trans women is that they use (or want to use, if they're still in the closet) she/her pronouns, and that they were not assigned female at birth. Everything else can vary: - Lots of trans people want to be stealth. It's safer on average, but I live in a queer-friendly town - Not everyone wants to reclaim "queer" but personally I don't want to type out LGBTQIAA+ every time... - Some trans people report that their sexuality changes (or they realize they're actually asexual) after they begin transitioning or after they begin hormone therapy. It isn't clear what percent of this is caused by the hormones and what percent is purely psychological. - Most trans women don't say things like "I used to be a guy". I don't have an internal sense of gender, so I don't feel like the common story of "I was always a woman on the inside" applies to me, even though it applies to many trans women. When I was younger, people assumed I was male and I was fine with it, so I don't feel wrong to say I used to be a boy or used to be a guy. I transitioned when I decided that I didn't need an internal sense of gender - If I wanted to be a woman on the outside, that's all I needed, and maybe for me in particular, I only have an outside.

NikolaNovak 5y ago

>> espadrille, sure, that's a woman's shoe guys might not ever see the word for. But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch? Ironically, Espadrille is the only word on that shortened list I ever heard of... but I think mostly because in my country its definition was expanded - certainly there were tons of Espadrilles for men. That may or many not be universal. Literally Everything else on the purple list... no clue. I do have curtains and a couch. FWIW I am a home owner in my 3rd owned residence (Condo, small house, medium house). I have never ever ever geeked out or cared about their material, by name, so I suppose there's a world still awaiting for me :) Anyhoo, I do feel that the two lists are not symmetrical. It feels that one is fairly clustered around fashion/style/materials, whereas the other, while still having common threads, has technology, science, physics, video games, and nerdery. But is that exposing simply another kind of bias in me? Because the "male" words are familiar to me, I see more diversity in them than the unfamiliar words? Food for thought, but I still think bushido, shemale and terraflops are different categories regardless of gender :D Fwiw, my classification: Aileron - airplanes; howizter, bushido, katana - military; shemale - porn; strafe - FPS/gaming presumably; Yakuza - gangs; boson, milliamp,gauss, piezoelectricity, etc - physics; checksum, teraflop - comsci; parsec... physics, technically, but SciFi, practically :P vs: fashion/clothes/hair: peplum, boucle, ruche, chignon, tulle, chenille, voile, bandeau, kohl,espadrille, whipstitch, sateen, jacquard, damask, chambray Verbena, Fressia - flower pessary, doula - health

brimble 5y ago
> strafe - FPS/gaming presumably; Could be the reason so many guys know it, but it's another term with military connections. I was aware of it from military sci fi before I ever encountered it in a gaming context.
- _tom_ 5y ago
  It's used in the Star Trek TOS episode "Shore Leave". That's where I learned it. Long predates most video games and military sci-fi.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  Oh for sure. It's possible I've learned it from WW2 movies or stories initially. Today though, it's such an inherent concept in video games, I feel it brings it from a abstract concept to a more practical reality.

tluyben2 5y ago

Curtain blocks all light, couch needs to be comfortable for long stretches. What more do I need to know? My wife knew all words, male and female. She is a writer and translator and about some tech stuff I talk to much. But she couldn’t care less what the couch or curtains are made off. She doesn’t even care too much about the color; ‘not black or white please’.

gfd 5y ago

I was shopping for curtains recently but the stuff that I cared about were the technical specifications: how much light it blocks, thermal properties, noise reduction, etc. What should I be looking for instead?

brimble 5y ago
Ditto. As a guy I know three kinds of curtain: "black out", kinda blocks light sort of, and lets most of the light through.

lhorie 5y ago

> Have you never shopped for textiles I mean, this[0] meme pretty much sums it up [0] https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/441/150/c01.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/441/150/c01...

brimble 5y ago
From the image: "guys really live in apartments like this and don't see any issue" And we mean it. I see only two problems: 1) no extra seating for pals—c'mon, at least add a couple bean bags and a couple folding trays (in fairness, those may be put away off-frame), if you're not even playing local multiplayer or having friends over to watch TV/movies, why even bother with this much? 2) it'll probably turn off any woman who sees it. So not enough seating and women won't like it, are the only reasons I wouldn't be totally OK living like that if I were single. [EDIT] I spotted a third problem! There's not a Gamecube or N64 or Dreamcast sitting on the floor halfway between the TV and chair.
- ReactiveJelly 5y ago
  The chair-TV axis should run the other way, so you can walk from the door to the kitchenette without bumping into the chair. Other than that yeah... it's fine... I'm not gonna shame people for being minimal.
  - brimble 5y ago
    After thinking about this a bit, I don't think the minimalism is the problem. I think the main problem is that it looks both cheap and "low". TVs are "low" and having one so prominent makes the room look low-class. The room itself looks like a cheap apartment. The fix is to buy more stuff for the room—and especially to put on the walls—to compete with the TV so it's less prominent, or to keep things very minimal but replace the TV (too "low") with something else and re-do the entire room (chair included) to fit some minimalist trendy design. Like if this were an ultra-modern concrete room or something traditional-Japanese themed (walls, windows, flooring and all) it'd be Instagram worthy, even if it were just as minimal—but those are expensive looks to attain. No one would be saying the sleek designer room looked unlivable because it didn't have pictures on the walls or curtains or more furniture. Reminds me of Rusty's apartment in True Detective. His minimalism is (I think it's fair to say) at least in part a philisophical choice, which could look cool or respectable or impressive coupled with surroundings to make it so, but because it's a normal, cheap apartment with normal, cheap stuff (and not much of it), it just looks... well, cheap. That he doesn't care about making it nicer-looking and more in line with impressive takes on minimalism probably says something about his character—a preference for substance over appearance, for one, and maybe some other things. Or how "minimalism" trends in pop culture are often coupled with a consumerist focus on expensive, nice-looking items that'll still impress and signal certain things about the owner, while the same thing on a small budget usually looks far less impressive (because it's mostly cheap stuff). Tiny house vs. trailer home or RV. All that kind of thing. That the good couldn't have been acquired cheaply is about as important is its practical functionality, to certain buyers. Nobody wants to look at Wal-Mart minimalism, which is what this room is.

Tade0 5y ago

> Do you not have curtains or a couch? Couch is couch. Anyway I have two sisters and remember not understanding how and when did they learn those words. I do recognize some of those words, but as a non-native English speaker I was surprised about their spelling.

aidenn0 5y ago
Don't worry, native English speakers are also surprised about their spelling.
astrange 5y ago
Most of these words have unusual spelling since we got them from French.

simsla 5y ago

Recently bought new curtains, and I selected on size, colour and made sure they were blackout curtains. For the life of me (literally) I wouldn't be able to name the fabric.

dec0dedab0de 5y ago

...Do you not have curtains or a couch? I've owned a home for over 15 years, and I still don't have curtains because it is too overwhelming. Current couch is Ikea, so I just wrote down the number, next couch will be leather. Edit: One thing I know about fabric is that linen is made from flax, in 2016 I took a tour at a revolutionary war house where they used to make linen. I only went in because there was a pokemon in it, but it was still very interesting.

yibg 5y ago

I’m male. My vocabulary for couch material are: leather and fabric. That’s about it.

skykooler 5y ago

Not only do I have a couch, I made it and upholstered it myself. But I don't know what fabric it's covered with - it was just labeled as "upholstery fabric" at Joanne Fabrics, and I picked it because it looked sturdy and would fit with the room's color scheme.

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scotty79 5y ago

Don't be surprised that gender that mainly dresses in jeans and t-shirts doesn't recognize many textiles beyond denim and cotton fabric.

JabavuAdams 5y ago

> Have you never shopped for textiles for your house or apartment? 45 years old, and no. Why would I do that? All my furniture and drapes are pretty much IKEA. I have some interest in clothing, but aside from the occasional Hallowe'en death cloak don't know much about fabrics other than cotton/polyester/nylon. A minute shopping is a minute wasted, in terms of my interests. I don't want to spend any time thinking about it unless I have to, in order to accomplish some other goal. I tend to standardize on colours / outfits / style to make sure I don't spend much mental energy on fashion or shopping, while still not looking like I don't "get" it.

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hongsy 5y ago
Dude you need to get a life

samgtx 5y ago

rjbwork 5y ago
I don't think anyone wonders why, lol.
Banana699 5y ago
Imagine being so ignorant and self-centered you think that men not showing the same interest in something that doesn't interest them is them lacking style. I guess women and girls not liking programming and cars as much as men is proof they're technically illiterate and have no appreciation for science or engineering.

meragrin_ 5y ago

> But damask? Jacquard? Chenille? Do you not have curtains or a couch? I'm pretty utility driven when it comes to curtains or couches. I'm just looking for something which does what it is supposed to and is not hideous. How does knowing damask, jacquard, and chenille help with determining if curtains block light and a couch is comfortable when I sit in it?

rory 5y ago

Any curtains I've ever bought are "the ones they have at Home Depot." Fabrics with fancy French names seem like rich people things, regardless of gender, no?

ksenzee 5y ago
Hm. I don't think it's a rich people thing, really. Most of these words are describing the way the fabric is made, not the material it's made out of. A lot of guys own a chambray shirt, and if you google "damask tablecloth" they'll probably look familiar from restaurants. "Chenille stem" is the craft-store word for "pipe cleaner." You can find sateen sheets at Walmart and Target. Voile and tulle are not masculine fabrics, and I wouldn't necessarily expect a guy to know what they were, but they're the kind of thing a high-school prom dress might be made out of.

wickoff 5y ago

What do you mean textiles? We just buy the gray-ish ones.

fleddr 5y ago

I think during the reading of your comment I spent more time thinking about fabrics than the total effort I spent on it in my entire life.

gred 5y ago

It's fun to discover the bubbles that we live in. I know "espadrille" because a man in an Agatha Christie novel was described as wearing them, so I looked it up (this was years ago). If the same book had named the kind of cloth used on a couch, tablecloth or curtain, I definitely would not have been interested enough to look it up -- for all I know there may have actually been such a description in the book! I would have guessed that "damask" might have something to do with the damasquine steel used in weapons manufacturing.

qubitcoder 5y ago

Even as a gay man (and software engineer), I only barely recognized a couple of the female words from studying French. Otherwise I was clueless. I knew 100% of the male words, and use most of them regularly given my hobbies and interests (excluding the Japanese words and "shemale", which seems like slang uttered by young people, if I had to guess?). And, no, I've never shopped for textiles. "Jacquard" is certainly very familiar given its relation to computing--and having lived and worked in Lyon. My parents even worked in textiles growing up, but I was nonetheless clueless. TIL that I own a few nice Chambray shirts, courtesy of Google ;-)

alar44 5y ago

Textiles? No I don't shop for "textiles". I buy clothing, furniture, and curtains and I really don't care what any of them are made of as long as it's not snakes, fire, or nails.

ksenzee 5y ago
That's like saying "no I don't shop for 'electronics' whatever that means, I buy phones and TVs and computers." The umbrella term is what it is, whether you know it or not.
- Talanes 5y ago
  If you completely ignore the context of the conversation, sure. The way "textiles" was thrown out implied that by shopping for textiles, one should know and care about the actual material. The reply was asserting that they judge the individual items by their quality, not by knowing the material.

JetAlone 5y ago

Our beauty is in utility. EDIT: Our other beauty is in Japan.

xdennis 5y ago

> damask I think more men would recognize the Damascus steel (apparently named after damask fabric).

brailsafe 5y ago

I feel about the same actually as a male software engineer. Have definitely at least seen most of the male dominated words, but could only approximate their definition. Not a single one of the female dominated list. Not once have I heard any of them. I'd be familiar with some bigger textile types and wood species like vinyl and teak, carpet lol, but that's about as far as it goes.

junon 5y ago

I'm a gay dude who cares a tad bit more than the average male about this stuff and even I have no idea what those are. I can guarantee you most guys don't know what those are, speaking from anecdotal experience. Gay or otherwise.

kingcharles 5y ago
Damn, I came here to say gay guys probably know a lot of the female words. As a bi guy I knew most of the female ones, but I'm very into my fashion and read a lot of female fashion mags and watch things like Project Runway!
ksenzee 5y ago
My gay BFF ex-husband knows his fabrics better than I do. YMMV.
- butwhywhyoh 5y ago
  That's probably why you're surprised that men don't know these words. You were married to a gay man.
  - ksenzee 5y ago
    No, I'm used to correcting for that. I was judging it by whether someone like my brother or the guys on my team would know it. I assumed they all would. Oops.

microtherion 5y ago

I buy my curtains & couches by look and feel. For pants, "denim" will go a long way. For shirts, I've learned to care a bit about fabric, because there are properties (whether you'll sweat in them; whether they need to be ironed all the time to look OK) that are not evident from look and feel alone. To be sure, I recognized most of the fabric words as words (wouldn't have been sure about "sateen" as opposed to "satin"), but they only one I could have defined was "tulle". And in my part of the world, espadrilles are not infrequently worn by men. But it's funny how people who are utterly indifferent about fabrics can sometimes hold forth at length about the relative merits of PLA, PETG, ABS, PVA, or TPU ;-)

firstplacelast 5y ago

I’m a gay male software engineer and had the same experience as you, I knew most of those words and the few I didn’t I had heard a few times but couldn’t define off the top of my head. And yes, lots of guys (even gay) just have zero clue about textiles. Also a small nitpick, an espadrille is not a woman’s shoe, it’s a style as far as I’m aware. I have a pair I wear in the summer.

ksenzee 5y ago
Yeah I stand corrected on espadrilles, and I was married to a gay guy for years so I should totally have known that one.

kalleboo 5y ago

I’m pretty sure our curtains are made out of some sort of plastic (polyester or w/e) since they looked good enough and had the best sound deadening/insulation properties

wrycoder 5y ago

My wife doesn’t do software. The only word she didn’t know was “checksum”.