5 ms·

i read an article about a month ago about how disney animation has steadily migrated away from a villain, to the self (or some other internal conflict) as the p

i read an article about a month ago about how disney animation has steadily migrated away from a villain, to the self (or some other internal conflict) as the primary antagonist. frozen moana frozen 2 encanto during that time there were also traditional "villain" types: big hero 6 zootopia ralph breaks the internet raya and the last drago agree or disagree, it's an interesting read: https://screenrant.com/encanto-movie-villain-disney-pixar-copy-good/ https://screenrant.com/encanto-movie-villain-disney-pixar-co...

jedberg 5y ago
Frozen has a villain -- Hans. Frozen 2 has a villain -- King Runeard Moana has a villain -- Te Kā Really only Encanto doesn't.
- radicaldreamer 5y ago
  Encanto's villain is childhood trauma or trauma and its effects more generally.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    I saw the villain as the Grandmother's pride, but either way, it wasn't a named character.
    - pchristensen 5y ago
      Abuela Alma has pride for sure, but I felt like she was driven much more by fear and trauma.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        The primary antagonist usually is given a motivation for driving the crisis that the story resolves.
    - samwillis 5y ago
      It did also have the (real life) villains at the beginning which creates the tragedy that kicks off the events. But yes no villain for a child to anchor too.
    - bladegash 5y ago
      Tend to agree here, or if you were to ask one of my kids (5 and 8), they’d say the grandmother in general was the villain. They didn’t see the nuance of it or the end as a moment of redemption. They just saw her as mean to Maribel and the villain.
- swasheck 5y ago
  i see your point, but hans and runeard were not the primary _antagonist_ in each of those movies, and te ka was actually a good being who acted negatively because of maui's actions. hand and runeard were essentially "living" props and if anyone one moana was a villain, it was maui. again, i see your point, but i think the point of the article and how i parsed it was that the pure good v evil villain motif has gotten significantly more nuanced recently.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    Hans was most definitely the primary antagonist. We just don't find out until the end. And same for the King. His actions drive the conflict, we just don't find out that it's his actions until the end. > and te ka was actually a good being who acted negatively because of maui's actions. Darth Vader is a good being who acts negatively because of the Emperor's actions, but he's still the villain. Just because the villain is redeemed doesn't make them not the villain. Yes, they've moved away from the idea of establishing the villain in the first act and defeating them in the third, but that's just better storytelling, not removing the villain. Just ask a child who the "bad guy" is in each movie and they will tell you without hesitation. It's only more subtle to you because you're an adult.
- dom96 5y ago
  Encanto does have an antagonist: the grandmother.
- swivelmaster 5y ago
  Te Ka doesn't drive most of Moana's action though, and defeating Te Ka is more like solving a puzzle than actually fighting a villain.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    Te Ka causes the blight that drives her to set off on her journey.
    - swivelmaster 5y ago
      Yes, but Maui caused that to happen by stealing the rock, so…
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Frozen has a villain -- Hans. Elsa is treated more like the primary antagonist (Anna is the protagonist.) Elsa is redeemed rather than defeated, but that's more a matter of ending than overall structural role. > Really only Encanto doesn't. Sure it does (at least, it has an antagonist responsible for the crisis that the story addresses and resolves.) Their identity is even announced at the climax of the film, just in case the viewer hasn't recognized it. (Like Frozen, and Moana—whether, in the latter case, you consider Te Kā or Maui the ultimate antagonist—the antagonist is redeemed and reconciled with the protagonist and the broader community rather than defeated.)
rprenger 5y ago
That's an interesting pattern, that seems pretty clear now that you mention it. I would also argue that Ralph Breaks the Internet falls squarely into the "self/internal conflict" class too, as the main antagonist is literally Ralph's own insecurity.
- swasheck 5y ago
  yeah, i agree. and zootopia is self vs societal norms, but each of them have a more "traditional" villain, so i included them in the traditional group.
dragonwriter 5y ago
Encanto wasn't an internal conflict (I mean, other than the internal conflict inherent in the hero's journey), despite not having a traditional, irredeemable, villain. Neither, come to think of it was Frozen; both are redemptive—where the antagonist is reformed—rather than irreconcilable—where the antagonist is defeated— intrafamilial conflicts, not internal conflicts.

jedberg 5y ago

Frozen has a villain -- Hans. Frozen 2 has a villain -- King Runeard Moana has a villain -- Te Kā Really only Encanto doesn't.

radicaldreamer 5y ago
Encanto's villain is childhood trauma or trauma and its effects more generally.
- jedberg 5y ago
  I saw the villain as the Grandmother's pride, but either way, it wasn't a named character.
  - pchristensen 5y ago
    Abuela Alma has pride for sure, but I felt like she was driven much more by fear and trauma.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      The primary antagonist usually is given a motivation for driving the crisis that the story resolves.
  - samwillis 5y ago
    It did also have the (real life) villains at the beginning which creates the tragedy that kicks off the events. But yes no villain for a child to anchor too.
  - bladegash 5y ago
    Tend to agree here, or if you were to ask one of my kids (5 and 8), they’d say the grandmother in general was the villain. They didn’t see the nuance of it or the end as a moment of redemption. They just saw her as mean to Maribel and the villain.
swasheck 5y ago
i see your point, but hans and runeard were not the primary _antagonist_ in each of those movies, and te ka was actually a good being who acted negatively because of maui's actions. hand and runeard were essentially "living" props and if anyone one moana was a villain, it was maui. again, i see your point, but i think the point of the article and how i parsed it was that the pure good v evil villain motif has gotten significantly more nuanced recently.
- jedberg 5y ago
  Hans was most definitely the primary antagonist. We just don't find out until the end. And same for the King. His actions drive the conflict, we just don't find out that it's his actions until the end. > and te ka was actually a good being who acted negatively because of maui's actions. Darth Vader is a good being who acts negatively because of the Emperor's actions, but he's still the villain. Just because the villain is redeemed doesn't make them not the villain. Yes, they've moved away from the idea of establishing the villain in the first act and defeating them in the third, but that's just better storytelling, not removing the villain. Just ask a child who the "bad guy" is in each movie and they will tell you without hesitation. It's only more subtle to you because you're an adult.
dom96 5y ago
Encanto does have an antagonist: the grandmother.
swivelmaster 5y ago
Te Ka doesn't drive most of Moana's action though, and defeating Te Ka is more like solving a puzzle than actually fighting a villain.
- jedberg 5y ago
  Te Ka causes the blight that drives her to set off on her journey.
  - swivelmaster 5y ago
    Yes, but Maui caused that to happen by stealing the rock, so…
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Frozen has a villain -- Hans. Elsa is treated more like the primary antagonist (Anna is the protagonist.) Elsa is redeemed rather than defeated, but that's more a matter of ending than overall structural role. > Really only Encanto doesn't. Sure it does (at least, it has an antagonist responsible for the crisis that the story addresses and resolves.) Their identity is even announced at the climax of the film, just in case the viewer hasn't recognized it. (Like Frozen, and Moana—whether, in the latter case, you consider Te Kā or Maui the ultimate antagonist—the antagonist is redeemed and reconciled with the protagonist and the broader community rather than defeated.)

rprenger 5y ago

That's an interesting pattern, that seems pretty clear now that you mention it. I would also argue that Ralph Breaks the Internet falls squarely into the "self/internal conflict" class too, as the main antagonist is literally Ralph's own insecurity.

swasheck 5y ago
yeah, i agree. and zootopia is self vs societal norms, but each of them have a more "traditional" villain, so i included them in the traditional group.

dragonwriter 5y ago

Encanto wasn't an internal conflict (I mean, other than the internal conflict inherent in the hero's journey), despite not having a traditional, irredeemable, villain. Neither, come to think of it was Frozen; both are redemptive—where the antagonist is reformed—rather than irreconcilable—where the antagonist is defeated— intrafamilial conflicts, not internal conflicts.