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A bit of a strawman, there's a big different in user benefit between certain CSS/JS features and FLOC. The web as a whole would be better if Safarai/iOS support

A bit of a strawman, there's a big different in user benefit between certain CSS/JS features and FLOC. The web as a whole would be better if Safarai/iOS supported PWAs.

dmitriid 5y ago
> The web as a whole would be better if Safarai/iOS supported PWAs They support PWAs.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  Without notifications, they cannot really be called PWA’s, in my opinion. Notifications are a basic part of apps.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Push notifications were supported in the same update as PWAs.
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      They have never been supported in Safari for iOS, where it matters much more.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        They haven't been released yet for iOS. But they were announced at the same time PWAs downloaded as apps were announced. I think with iOS 16??
        jtbayly 5y ago
        I thought the API was added in the latest beta, in experimental mode, not working, and without announcement. Link to the announcement?
        HWR_14 5y ago
        I only remember reading it on HN. Did I misread it or misremember it? I'll be honest, I don't currently need to worry about push notifications, so I wasn't super aware of the details.
        jtbayly 5y ago
        Here's the link to the section: https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b#web-push-notifications-on-ios－with-a-catch https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b#web-push-notifications-on-ios－wit... > 1- It's a disabled-by-default experiment at this time > 2- The APIs are there, but they are not working
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > Without notifications, they cannot really be called PWA’s, in my opinion. Ah yes. "Your opinion". There's no such thing as "PWAs". There's a dozen or more standards, most of which are supported by Safari. Of course, everyone hails their own subjective subset of those standards as "the one true PWA support". If Safari ever supports push notifications, there will be some other standard that Safari must support to "properly support PWAs".
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      My point is that notifications are a basic part of apps in general. We aren’t talking about some esoteric api that will let you do 3d gaming and isn’t useful for anything else. There are huge numbers of categories of apps that are impossible without notifications. * todos * reminders * calendars * chat * phone And the list goes on. There are many others where the app might be possible, but for many people in many cases those apps are useless without notifications. Stocks, forum apps, etc. I’ll tell you what, I’ll offer you a smart phone that doesn’t ever allow you to get notifications for any reason. Then when you object, I’ll just tell you that there’s no such thing as a standard feature set for smart phones.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > I’ll just tell you that there’s no such thing as a standard feature set for smart phones. Indeed, there's no such standard feature set. Various smartphones offer various features, and you still call them smartphones.
        jtbayly 5y ago
        Show me a smartphone that can't ring, and I'll grant you that PWA's don't need notifications.
the_other 5y ago
Please provide proof of the assertion the web would be better if Safari suppored PWAs. I want to see graphs from the user side, not from the revenue side. Personally, I suspect the only thing which would be better if Safari supported PWAs would be that some companies would see more engagement with notifications. But this is just opinion.
HWR_14 5y ago
> there's a big different in user benefit between certain CSS/JS features and FLOC Yes, there is. And the method I'm responding to doesn't distinguish between them. Hence, it's a bad method. If only there was some group, some committee, that could form a consensus on what was important. That way every developer wouldn't individually disagree with specific decisions Apple made. For example, I'm not sure of any CSS/JS features Chrome has and Safari lacks that I want.

A bit of a strawman, there's a big different in user benefit between certain CSS/JS features and FLOC. The web as a whole would be better if Safarai/iOS supported PWAs.

dmitriid 5y ago

> The web as a whole would be better if Safarai/iOS supported PWAs They support PWAs.

jtbayly 5y ago
Without notifications, they cannot really be called PWA’s, in my opinion. Notifications are a basic part of apps.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Push notifications were supported in the same update as PWAs.
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    They have never been supported in Safari for iOS, where it matters much more.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      They haven't been released yet for iOS. But they were announced at the same time PWAs downloaded as apps were announced. I think with iOS 16??
      - jtbayly 5y ago
        I thought the API was added in the latest beta, in experimental mode, not working, and without announcement. Link to the announcement?
        HWR_14 5y ago
        I only remember reading it on HN. Did I misread it or misremember it? I'll be honest, I don't currently need to worry about push notifications, so I wasn't super aware of the details.
        jtbayly 5y ago
        Here's the link to the section: https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b#web-push-notifications-on-ios－with-a-catch https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b#web-push-notifications-on-ios－wit... > 1- It's a disabled-by-default experiment at this time > 2- The APIs are there, but they are not working
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > Without notifications, they cannot really be called PWA’s, in my opinion. Ah yes. "Your opinion". There's no such thing as "PWAs". There's a dozen or more standards, most of which are supported by Safari. Of course, everyone hails their own subjective subset of those standards as "the one true PWA support". If Safari ever supports push notifications, there will be some other standard that Safari must support to "properly support PWAs".
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    My point is that notifications are a basic part of apps in general. We aren’t talking about some esoteric api that will let you do 3d gaming and isn’t useful for anything else. There are huge numbers of categories of apps that are impossible without notifications. * todos * reminders * calendars * chat * phone And the list goes on. There are many others where the app might be possible, but for many people in many cases those apps are useless without notifications. Stocks, forum apps, etc. I’ll tell you what, I’ll offer you a smart phone that doesn’t ever allow you to get notifications for any reason. Then when you object, I’ll just tell you that there’s no such thing as a standard feature set for smart phones.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > I’ll just tell you that there’s no such thing as a standard feature set for smart phones. Indeed, there's no such standard feature set. Various smartphones offer various features, and you still call them smartphones.
      - jtbayly 5y ago
        Show me a smartphone that can't ring, and I'll grant you that PWA's don't need notifications.

the_other 5y ago

Please provide proof of the assertion the web would be better if Safari suppored PWAs. I want to see graphs from the user side, not from the revenue side. Personally, I suspect the only thing which would be better if Safari supported PWAs would be that some companies would see more engagement with notifications. But this is just opinion.

HWR_14 5y ago

> there's a big different in user benefit between certain CSS/JS features and FLOC Yes, there is. And the method I'm responding to doesn't distinguish between them. Hence, it's a bad method. If only there was some group, some committee, that could form a consensus on what was important. That way every developer wouldn't individually disagree with specific decisions Apple made. For example, I'm not sure of any CSS/JS features Chrome has and Safari lacks that I want.