4 ms·

I'm sure we all get the sense that there's probably going to be a big fat loophole somewhere. I think what might have been wiser is better transparency from po

I'm sure we all get the sense that there's probably going to be a big fat loophole somewhere. I think what might have been wiser is better transparency from politicians and their families. Either having a real-time trading dashboard that announces all of their trades in real-time, or set a requirement for them to pre-announce trades at least 1 day before. "If Apple's price is below $X tomorrow, then I intend to buy X calls" and make it so that these pre-announced trades are the only action they're allowed to do. But nothing really tackles the root of the dirty corruption problem so long as the government is involved in essentially picking the winners and losers in the marketplace. That's the real root of the issue that neither side even pretends to address.

compsciphd 5y ago
they should also make it like US expats have to deal with their foreign bank accounts. don't declare an FBAR appropriately, the US government fines you half the max value of the account (and make it no cap on penalty, unlike FBAR). Don't declare stock trades appropriately, not just that trade is penalized, the entire account or even one's entire portfolio (to avoid having many many different accounts) is penalized.
lariati 5y ago
No doubt, the bigger problem is they shouldn't be able make information trades because they don't have any special information. At this point, none of them should be able to own individual stocks. I would even ban them from owning sector ETFs. Broad index funds/bond funds, etc..a selection that looks like many of the average person's 401k choices. Being in power is not supposed to be your best career option and the best way you can possibly make money. That is practically the opposite meaning of civic virtue. Of course, I know this is all fantasy land stuff. I think systemically we have just hit that time decay before expiration that things start going down faster and faster.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
The main issue with corruption in politics has little directly to do with stock trading. The main issue is access. Companies give donations based on access. Companies give jobs after politicians are finished with their political careers so that they can have process SMEs who have access to the sitting group of politicians and their political parties. Stock trading isn't a bump on a frog's ass comparatively. I'm not saying they shouldn't ban it for people in Congress. I'm saying that if it's corruption you're looking to stamp out, then politicians should be forced to use ONLY public funding for political campaigns AND be banned from holding lobbying or lobbyist-adjacent positions for 6 years after leaving Congress.
- prirun 5y ago
  I'd go further and say once you've been a politician at a certain level, you should be banned from being in politics for the rest of your life. Why? Because if a person's total purpose in life is to be a politician, IMO they will eventually be a bad / corrupt one. If a person goes into with "here's my attempt to make things better for 4 years", great. But that's all you get. I'd also ban the next 2 generations in the family from going into politics. If grandpa did it, you can't, and you can't benefit from his connections. It's not like we are talking about a lot of people. The main issue in politics IMO is that greed is a human characteristics that we aren't likely to soon be rid of.
  - nescioquid 5y ago
    I've always wondered about using a lottery system for public service, other than jury selection.
    - floxy 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
  - torstenvl 5y ago
    This is a terrible proposal whose immediate and obvious effect would be to worsen corruption. No rational human being could believe that making sure power can only be wielded by the naive and weak-willed, while banning lifelong public servants, will somehow shield it from manipulation. You effectively want to set up a Fellowship of only Hobbits, and expect them to stand up to Sauron without the assistance of the elves or humans or Gandalf.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  > The main issue is access. Access isn't the root problem though: ask yourself why anybody wants to pay money to speak to those charlatans. The root problem is that the politicians can control who the winners and losers are. So long as that variable exists, any attempt to stamp out corruption is like trying to drain water out of a bathtub with a bucket that has a hole in it. > politicians should be forced to use ONLY public funding for political campaigns Maybe there's a good answer to this, but this sounds like a way to ensure that the Democrat/Republican duopoly continues indefinitely. Certainly Greens, Libertarians, and others are going to qualify for public funding in exactly the same way as they qualify for debate appearances.
mgh2 5y ago
Might be a power play for shows only, a cunning strategy by politicians for PR purposes

compsciphd 5y ago

they should also make it like US expats have to deal with their foreign bank accounts. don't declare an FBAR appropriately, the US government fines you half the max value of the account (and make it no cap on penalty, unlike FBAR). Don't declare stock trades appropriately, not just that trade is penalized, the entire account or even one's entire portfolio (to avoid having many many different accounts) is penalized.

lariati 5y ago

No doubt, the bigger problem is they shouldn't be able make information trades because they don't have any special information. At this point, none of them should be able to own individual stocks. I would even ban them from owning sector ETFs. Broad index funds/bond funds, etc..a selection that looks like many of the average person's 401k choices. Being in power is not supposed to be your best career option and the best way you can possibly make money. That is practically the opposite meaning of civic virtue. Of course, I know this is all fantasy land stuff. I think systemically we have just hit that time decay before expiration that things start going down faster and faster.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

The main issue with corruption in politics has little directly to do with stock trading. The main issue is access. Companies give donations based on access. Companies give jobs after politicians are finished with their political careers so that they can have process SMEs who have access to the sitting group of politicians and their political parties. Stock trading isn't a bump on a frog's ass comparatively. I'm not saying they shouldn't ban it for people in Congress. I'm saying that if it's corruption you're looking to stamp out, then politicians should be forced to use ONLY public funding for political campaigns AND be banned from holding lobbying or lobbyist-adjacent positions for 6 years after leaving Congress.

prirun 5y ago
I'd go further and say once you've been a politician at a certain level, you should be banned from being in politics for the rest of your life. Why? Because if a person's total purpose in life is to be a politician, IMO they will eventually be a bad / corrupt one. If a person goes into with "here's my attempt to make things better for 4 years", great. But that's all you get. I'd also ban the next 2 generations in the family from going into politics. If grandpa did it, you can't, and you can't benefit from his connections. It's not like we are talking about a lot of people. The main issue in politics IMO is that greed is a human characteristics that we aren't likely to soon be rid of.
- nescioquid 5y ago
  I've always wondered about using a lottery system for public service, other than jury selection.
  - floxy 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
- torstenvl 5y ago
  This is a terrible proposal whose immediate and obvious effect would be to worsen corruption. No rational human being could believe that making sure power can only be wielded by the naive and weak-willed, while banning lifelong public servants, will somehow shield it from manipulation. You effectively want to set up a Fellowship of only Hobbits, and expect them to stand up to Sauron without the assistance of the elves or humans or Gandalf.
logicalmonster 5y ago
> The main issue is access. Access isn't the root problem though: ask yourself why anybody wants to pay money to speak to those charlatans. The root problem is that the politicians can control who the winners and losers are. So long as that variable exists, any attempt to stamp out corruption is like trying to drain water out of a bathtub with a bucket that has a hole in it. > politicians should be forced to use ONLY public funding for political campaigns Maybe there's a good answer to this, but this sounds like a way to ensure that the Democrat/Republican duopoly continues indefinitely. Certainly Greens, Libertarians, and others are going to qualify for public funding in exactly the same way as they qualify for debate appearances.

mgh2 5y ago

Might be a power play for shows only, a cunning strategy by politicians for PR purposes