5 ms·

When I bought my last car (Honda Fit), I was stuck with the base model because it was the only one without a touch a screen. I test drove the upgraded trim pac

by yojo 5y ago

When I bought my last car (Honda Fit), I was stuck with the base model because it was the only one without a touch a screen. I test drove the upgraded trim package. It was nicer in every way but the damn touch screen, which was a non-starter. I had to wait three months for a cheaper car to come in, instead of buying the upgraded package on the spot. At some point a manufacturer will get wise and start selling manual controls as an upgrade.

dfxm12 5y ago
That's the same reason I bought the base model of my last car. Besides the steering wheel, you end up interacting with the center console the most. It really should be one of the top considerations in buying a car vs fancy wheels, a cool spoiler or a turbocharger, etc. After all, a lot of body components & engine modifications can be added after market. You're going to have a much harder time "fixing" that center console...
- yojo 5y ago
  It’s too bad the manufacturers don’t just make APIs with swappable standard sized hardware instead of integrated systems. An average car lasts 12 years. How many 12 year old tablets do people want to use? My first car was a 15 year old beater with a tape deck. It was trivial to rip it out and put in an (at the time current) CD player. I pity the poor kids who are going to be stuck with these cars down the road.
delusional 5y ago
Mazda already wised up and removed the touchscreen in their newer models, everything in the infotainment is operated by a little rotary/dpad-thing located near the gearshift. I think it's quite nice, input wise. Software wise it's a complete mess. The software itself is actually pretty OK, the navigation is just very verbose and it's strange that I can't just update it myself. The startup is also quite annoying. It's an embedded computer in a car, it should be instant. Android auto support is a trashfire. It occasionally (when i drive for more than an hour) crashes the entire infotainment system, forcing it to reboot (a 1 minute process). Thankfully it resumes from where it left off after the reboot.
- mileza 5y ago
  The touchscreen is still there on my 2020 model. but I always use the roulette to navigate. It's a bit akward at times but it's much better than taking my eyes off the road to try and line up my finger on the touchpad. It's disabled in Android Auto mode, and probably in CarPlay but I never used it. I too had problems with Android Auto when using my old phone, it constantly crashed. When I switched to a Pixel 4a in 2020 I no longer had any issues. It works like a charm. So I suspect it could be your phone, or something related (the cable, the type of USB plug, etc.).
  - neogodless 5y ago
    For me, I tried a Pixel 3 and a Oneplus 7 Pro, with two different cables, and the instability issues were the same. So it's not clear to me that the issue is outside of the head unit.
    - delusional 5y ago
      For the first 2 months of me owning my car (it's a 2021 mx5), I had to force close spotify immediately before plugging the phone into the car (It was like a 30 second window) or the car would refuse to output any audio. Without any change to the cable or the car, and with the same handset, the problem suddenly disappeared. The only thing I think of that could have fixed it is an over the air update for my phone. Either way, it's branded "Android Auto". I'm going to blame Google for anything that doesn't work optimally. If they cared, they could certify their product.
      - neogodless 5y ago
        Yup - the common element between my phones is the underlying Android software / Android Auto software.
        delusional 5y ago
        I misread your previous comment has the problem originating _inside_ the headunit. Just wanted to clear that up since my response probably seemed pretty superfluous.
throw10920 5y ago
> At some point a manufacturer will get wise and start selling manual controls as an upgrade. Will they really? Most consumers invest very little effort in researching most of their purchases, and are remarkably tolerant to specific kinds of annoyances. I wish that they invested more effort, but based on my observations of my friends and family (who will spend e.g. about 20 minutes researching their $600 phone purchase), they won't, with a few outliers. An imperfect comparison might be the amount of effort that the average techie spends on purchasing a MicroSD card or USB drive (usually on Amazon). How many people, even programmers, will spend time looking for durability or third-party performance benchmarking numbers? How many will look for child/slave labor in the manufacturing of the device, or rare earth materials sourced from areas in conflict? I, personally, know that I should do the above, but I don't - partially because Google is so incredibly bad at finding the information, but also because I know that because most other people don't care, a lot of the above information might not exist at all.
- cgriswald 5y ago
  I think most people look at it in a cost/benefit way. If it takes them three hours to research, they've spent 3x $hourly_rate + $item_cost—which in many instances may be more expensive than just selling off an item they can't stand and getting a different one. (To the extent that people do this even when it would pay for itself, I think it's mostly the result of just being in the habit.) I try to view it instead as being paid (albeit at a lower rate) for my off time. (And if you do this for everything, you'll tend to spend less, have more in the bank, and the amount you get 'paid' will increase over time.)
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  The change would more likely be driven by regulation than market action as the dynamic is not one which is readily assessed by individual buyers. That said, it's regulation which has driven the present problem....
- gxqoz 5y ago
  I think a car is definitely one product that the typical consumer does at least some research on, given that it's such a large purchase. Consumer Reports certainly grades infotainment systems and maybe that's having some impact in manufacturers choosing better options. Although maybe that's less impactful from the sales boost that comes from dealers showing off "neat" features of the touchscreen.
dgemm 5y ago
Similar thing with the touch bar on macbooks. I would pay extra to "upgrade" to one with physical F-keys instead.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  You can, the new Macbook Pros go back to no touchbar and physical f- keys again.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    Upgrade = Replace in Apple-land.
melony 5y ago
Ironically Mazda got rid of their touch screen for their new cars.

by yojo 5y ago

dfxm12 5y ago

That's the same reason I bought the base model of my last car. Besides the steering wheel, you end up interacting with the center console the most. It really should be one of the top considerations in buying a car vs fancy wheels, a cool spoiler or a turbocharger, etc. After all, a lot of body components & engine modifications can be added after market. You're going to have a much harder time "fixing" that center console...

yojo 5y ago
It’s too bad the manufacturers don’t just make APIs with swappable standard sized hardware instead of integrated systems. An average car lasts 12 years. How many 12 year old tablets do people want to use? My first car was a 15 year old beater with a tape deck. It was trivial to rip it out and put in an (at the time current) CD player. I pity the poor kids who are going to be stuck with these cars down the road.

delusional 5y ago

Mazda already wised up and removed the touchscreen in their newer models, everything in the infotainment is operated by a little rotary/dpad-thing located near the gearshift. I think it's quite nice, input wise. Software wise it's a complete mess. The software itself is actually pretty OK, the navigation is just very verbose and it's strange that I can't just update it myself. The startup is also quite annoying. It's an embedded computer in a car, it should be instant. Android auto support is a trashfire. It occasionally (when i drive for more than an hour) crashes the entire infotainment system, forcing it to reboot (a 1 minute process). Thankfully it resumes from where it left off after the reboot.

mileza 5y ago
The touchscreen is still there on my 2020 model. but I always use the roulette to navigate. It's a bit akward at times but it's much better than taking my eyes off the road to try and line up my finger on the touchpad. It's disabled in Android Auto mode, and probably in CarPlay but I never used it. I too had problems with Android Auto when using my old phone, it constantly crashed. When I switched to a Pixel 4a in 2020 I no longer had any issues. It works like a charm. So I suspect it could be your phone, or something related (the cable, the type of USB plug, etc.).
- neogodless 5y ago
  For me, I tried a Pixel 3 and a Oneplus 7 Pro, with two different cables, and the instability issues were the same. So it's not clear to me that the issue is outside of the head unit.
  - delusional 5y ago
    For the first 2 months of me owning my car (it's a 2021 mx5), I had to force close spotify immediately before plugging the phone into the car (It was like a 30 second window) or the car would refuse to output any audio. Without any change to the cable or the car, and with the same handset, the problem suddenly disappeared. The only thing I think of that could have fixed it is an over the air update for my phone. Either way, it's branded "Android Auto". I'm going to blame Google for anything that doesn't work optimally. If they cared, they could certify their product.
    - neogodless 5y ago
      Yup - the common element between my phones is the underlying Android software / Android Auto software.
      - delusional 5y ago
        I misread your previous comment has the problem originating _inside_ the headunit. Just wanted to clear that up since my response probably seemed pretty superfluous.

throw10920 5y ago

> At some point a manufacturer will get wise and start selling manual controls as an upgrade. Will they really? Most consumers invest very little effort in researching most of their purchases, and are remarkably tolerant to specific kinds of annoyances. I wish that they invested more effort, but based on my observations of my friends and family (who will spend e.g. about 20 minutes researching their $600 phone purchase), they won't, with a few outliers. An imperfect comparison might be the amount of effort that the average techie spends on purchasing a MicroSD card or USB drive (usually on Amazon). How many people, even programmers, will spend time looking for durability or third-party performance benchmarking numbers? How many will look for child/slave labor in the manufacturing of the device, or rare earth materials sourced from areas in conflict? I, personally, know that I should do the above, but I don't - partially because Google is so incredibly bad at finding the information, but also because I know that because most other people don't care, a lot of the above information might not exist at all.

cgriswald 5y ago
I think most people look at it in a cost/benefit way. If it takes them three hours to research, they've spent 3x $hourly_rate + $item_cost—which in many instances may be more expensive than just selling off an item they can't stand and getting a different one. (To the extent that people do this even when it would pay for itself, I think it's mostly the result of just being in the habit.) I try to view it instead as being paid (albeit at a lower rate) for my off time. (And if you do this for everything, you'll tend to spend less, have more in the bank, and the amount you get 'paid' will increase over time.)
dredmorbius 5y ago
The change would more likely be driven by regulation than market action as the dynamic is not one which is readily assessed by individual buyers. That said, it's regulation which has driven the present problem....
gxqoz 5y ago
I think a car is definitely one product that the typical consumer does at least some research on, given that it's such a large purchase. Consumer Reports certainly grades infotainment systems and maybe that's having some impact in manufacturers choosing better options. Although maybe that's less impactful from the sales boost that comes from dealers showing off "neat" features of the touchscreen.

dgemm 5y ago

Similar thing with the touch bar on macbooks. I would pay extra to "upgrade" to one with physical F-keys instead.

jrochkind1 5y ago
You can, the new Macbook Pros go back to no touchbar and physical f- keys again.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  Upgrade = Replace in Apple-land.

melony 5y ago

Ironically Mazda got rid of their touch screen for their new cars.