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The only problem I see there is a missing market, or as explained in the article, "2. Status can’t pay the rent". But I disagree with the premise that you need

by csdvrx 5y ago

The only problem I see there is a missing market, or as explained in the article, "2. Status can’t pay the rent". But I disagree with the premise that you need a direct intermediary. Sooner or later, I think companies like twitter or reddit will want to "lock in with golden handcuffs" their most valuable writers, those who result in precious ad money eyeballs. Otherwise, these writers may go to those who'll pay them. Some may decry that, but I think it will incentivize both to behave. If you need fresh examples, I find Rogan tone regarding the whole Spotify thing very telling: he's as nice to them as someone who's received a $100M cheque :) And on the other side, how Spotify handled that despite the various pressures exerted, is also very telling: they're as nice to him as any pro-sports manager would be to a highly paid star player, who in the course of the contract is expected to generate way more revenue for the team that what they pay him (or... they would not pay him that much in the first place!) Both parties benefit tremendously from the deal, which gives a strong incentive for everyone to behave. The author has noticed part of the trend in journalism: the "extreme upper who’s public standing achieved escape velocity, allowing them to go independent via Substack and earn vastly higher incomes". The only reason it's currently limited to the upper tail is due to frictions and transaction costs / legal issues etc. making it easier to pay $100M to 1 person vs $1 to 100M people. However, that's not set in stone. With the financial upheaval that crypto will unleash onto the world, I believe that status WILL end up paying the rent: reddit could certainly spin some coin to pay the people they value. Writers will moonlight under a nom-de-plume, until it starts paying more than their daily job. If it's not reddit, then some other company will.

maybeOneDay 5y ago
I'm not certain why crypto is hugely important here. Can reddit not just ask people to link a paypal/some other banal payment provider if they would like to pay content creators?
- csdvrx 5y ago
  I see two huge reasons: 1. friction and legal issues when it comes to money being send to people 2. lack of a second market for current reddit badges etc. Now if said badges were say NFTs and could be traded for something else easily, I would agree with you.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    Isn’t reddit already doing this with NFTs and a secondary market? And I think it’s not working out so great. Edit: I can’t for the life of me find the link but I swear there was an article posted to HN in the last week or so about Reddit giving mods an exclusive NFT or token of some sort that the mods were then selling for significant sums.
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      > Edit: I can’t for the life of me find the link but I swear there was an article posted to HN in the last week or so about Reddit giving mods an exclusive NFT or token of some sort that the mods were then selling for significant sums. IDK, but it's bound to happen eventually, one way or the other! I think we're in the very early stages for something that will change the power dynamics in social media
  - bosie 5y ago
    > legal issues when it comes to money being send to people how is the mode of sending money the problem here?
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      The mode is a problem when sending fractions of cents (the elusive micropayments), but the core problem is sending money in the first place. Giving people that's not money comes with fewer administrative burden - and even less if it's digital.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  Crypto is important because those invested in crypto have to keep growing the market to find new people to buy they stuff they own.
anthony_r 5y ago
This is exactly what YouTube does already. In fact I see no reason why Twitter couldn't spill ad money to the content (tweet) creators within the next year or two, creating a similar ecosystem. Maybe the value attributable to individual creators would be too small? Videos are quite a bit bigger than tweets (in terms of what matters most, the eyeball time), after all.
zemvpferreira 5y ago
Why would crypto be the missing piece to micro-monetization? You had me till that paragraph but there's no reason Reddit can't pay contributors in cents per thousand likes if currency is really the bottleneck. If it can be properly valued, it can already be properly paid.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Why would crypto be the missing piece to micro-monetization? Accounting fees, laws regarding employment, the "tiny problem" of child labor... Something I've found very interesting on reddit gaming subs is how a lot of gamers easily admit they use Bing simply because it gets them a free gamepass every month. Could Microsoft give them an equivalent amount of money? Maybe, but the costs in red tape alone would eat a lot of what they'd get. A gamepass paid by Microsoft rewards points achieve the same thing, without having to consider the legality of say whether compensating someone below 18 to use a search engine could constitute child labor. Microsoft has tried to shove Bing down people throats using various strategies, but this one works! I see it as one early type of micro-monetization, and crypto as what will enable that for most companies who can't mint xbox gamepass :)
  - zemvpferreira 5y ago
    I've gone from not giving a shit about crypto to being repulsed by it because of comments like this. Using smilies to convey the benefits of using shitcoins to skirt around child labour laws? Employment laws? And proper accounting/taxation? Thanks but not interested.
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      > Using smilies Is the problem the form, or the message? > And proper accounting/taxation? Interesting, here's yet another person shoving words in my mouth! Nowhere in the above or anywhere else did I even suggest people shouldn't pay the taxes they owe if they make capital gains. And FWIW, taxes are a very small problem in the grand scheme of things: my core argument is about reducing friction, which may allow a missing market, even for companies that are not at the scale of Microsoft and can't mint a gamepass.
_fat_santa 5y ago
> Sooner or later, I think companies like twitter or reddit will want to "lock in with golden handcuffs" their most valuable writers, those who result in precious ad money eyeballs. Reddit already "pays" their writers, they pay them in upvotes. But seriously though, that's how places like Reddit get their content. You want to post because you think "people might like this", and "I might get a ton of upvotes" and "I might even get some awards". Now all of these things are completely worthless, but the point is to trick your brain into thinking those things hold value in an attempt for you to post.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Reddit already "pays" their writers, they pay them in upvotes Good enough for now, but then it's a high status zero wage job :) > Now all of these things are completely worthless, but the point is to trick your brain into thinking those things hold value in an attempt for you to post. Think further: not _if_ but _when_ a company comes with a good way to exchange this social capital for more traditional financial capital, it will crush those who don't allow that.

by csdvrx 5y ago

maybeOneDay 5y ago

I'm not certain why crypto is hugely important here. Can reddit not just ask people to link a paypal/some other banal payment provider if they would like to pay content creators?

csdvrx 5y ago
I see two huge reasons: 1. friction and legal issues when it comes to money being send to people 2. lack of a second market for current reddit badges etc. Now if said badges were say NFTs and could be traded for something else easily, I would agree with you.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Isn’t reddit already doing this with NFTs and a secondary market? And I think it’s not working out so great. Edit: I can’t for the life of me find the link but I swear there was an article posted to HN in the last week or so about Reddit giving mods an exclusive NFT or token of some sort that the mods were then selling for significant sums.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > Edit: I can’t for the life of me find the link but I swear there was an article posted to HN in the last week or so about Reddit giving mods an exclusive NFT or token of some sort that the mods were then selling for significant sums. IDK, but it's bound to happen eventually, one way or the other! I think we're in the very early stages for something that will change the power dynamics in social media
- bosie 5y ago
  > legal issues when it comes to money being send to people how is the mode of sending money the problem here?
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    The mode is a problem when sending fractions of cents (the elusive micropayments), but the core problem is sending money in the first place. Giving people that's not money comes with fewer administrative burden - and even less if it's digital.
JaimeThompson 5y ago
Crypto is important because those invested in crypto have to keep growing the market to find new people to buy they stuff they own.

anthony_r 5y ago

This is exactly what YouTube does already. In fact I see no reason why Twitter couldn't spill ad money to the content (tweet) creators within the next year or two, creating a similar ecosystem. Maybe the value attributable to individual creators would be too small? Videos are quite a bit bigger than tweets (in terms of what matters most, the eyeball time), after all.

zemvpferreira 5y ago

Why would crypto be the missing piece to micro-monetization? You had me till that paragraph but there's no reason Reddit can't pay contributors in cents per thousand likes if currency is really the bottleneck. If it can be properly valued, it can already be properly paid.

csdvrx 5y ago
> Why would crypto be the missing piece to micro-monetization? Accounting fees, laws regarding employment, the "tiny problem" of child labor... Something I've found very interesting on reddit gaming subs is how a lot of gamers easily admit they use Bing simply because it gets them a free gamepass every month. Could Microsoft give them an equivalent amount of money? Maybe, but the costs in red tape alone would eat a lot of what they'd get. A gamepass paid by Microsoft rewards points achieve the same thing, without having to consider the legality of say whether compensating someone below 18 to use a search engine could constitute child labor. Microsoft has tried to shove Bing down people throats using various strategies, but this one works! I see it as one early type of micro-monetization, and crypto as what will enable that for most companies who can't mint xbox gamepass :)
- zemvpferreira 5y ago
  I've gone from not giving a shit about crypto to being repulsed by it because of comments like this. Using smilies to convey the benefits of using shitcoins to skirt around child labour laws? Employment laws? And proper accounting/taxation? Thanks but not interested.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > Using smilies Is the problem the form, or the message? > And proper accounting/taxation? Interesting, here's yet another person shoving words in my mouth! Nowhere in the above or anywhere else did I even suggest people shouldn't pay the taxes they owe if they make capital gains. And FWIW, taxes are a very small problem in the grand scheme of things: my core argument is about reducing friction, which may allow a missing market, even for companies that are not at the scale of Microsoft and can't mint a gamepass.

_fat_santa 5y ago

> Sooner or later, I think companies like twitter or reddit will want to "lock in with golden handcuffs" their most valuable writers, those who result in precious ad money eyeballs. Reddit already "pays" their writers, they pay them in upvotes. But seriously though, that's how places like Reddit get their content. You want to post because you think "people might like this", and "I might get a ton of upvotes" and "I might even get some awards". Now all of these things are completely worthless, but the point is to trick your brain into thinking those things hold value in an attempt for you to post.

csdvrx 5y ago
> Reddit already "pays" their writers, they pay them in upvotes Good enough for now, but then it's a high status zero wage job :) > Now all of these things are completely worthless, but the point is to trick your brain into thinking those things hold value in an attempt for you to post. Think further: not _if_ but _when_ a company comes with a good way to exchange this social capital for more traditional financial capital, it will crush those who don't allow that.