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Don't let your hate of porn, however justified you think it is, blind you to the harms of censorship and de-anonymization. As others have noted, they have alrea

Don't let your hate of porn, however justified you think it is, blind you to the harms of censorship and de-anonymization. As others have noted, they have already been caught censoring all sorts of non-porn content under this guise. That you can remove the block doesn't fix all the issues - anyone under 18 is still confined to a government-approved subset of the internet, and many over-18's won't lift the filter, further marginalizing dissident websites that, entirely by accident, find themselves blocked.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  Limits on who can access certain content are a form of censorship. That they have existed for a long time or that you approve of the particular one doesn't change that.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    Oh good grief. Technically, yes. But my kid's Kindle not being able to access Xhamster is not what most people have in mind when we talk about censorship.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  Help me understand. Are you saying we would be better off if there were fewer trans people?
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    A growing population who needs surgery and psychiatric care is a problem, yes. Increasing acceptance hasn't done anything positive for their depression rates, drug use rates, suicide rates, either. So yeah. I don't see this population growing as a good thing for anyone. Im not advocating eradication of them or anything negative. But I do think when we have kids who trend towards narcissistic personality disorder, that the web exacerbates ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/) And a population that trends autistic (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/the-link-between-autism-and-trans-identity/507509/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/the-link-...) That porn culture and identity politics culture sucking them up in a vacuum isn't a positive thing. This isn't something we want to encourage to grow. Incel culture is largely men growing up on porn mad at their inadequacy in obtaining women. Trans culture, at least in part and mostly why it's slanted so far MtF is because autism affects men more than women and they internalized the porn differently in that they'd just tther be the women seen in the porn. Trans and Incel culture are two sides of the same coin Imho. Why do you think trans people call people bigots for not wanting to sleep with them.? Who's thst sound like? Oh yeah.. Incels. Who thinks they're owed sex. Its a political divide of the same base problems.
    - haswell 5y ago
      > Trans culture, at least in part and mostly why it's slanted so far MtF is because autism affects men more than women and they internalized the porn differently Where is this coming from? This is such a reductionist take on an extremely complex issue. If you have studies to share, I’d be interested to read them. If you’re basing your conclusions on extreme subreddits or similar places, I would remind you that Reddit is not a direct reflection of society as a whole. Nor are some of the personalities there a direct reflection of their counterparts in other parts of the real world.
    - kelseyfrog 5y ago
      What would happen to you had positive views about trans people? Would your life be any better or worse?
    - mftrhu 5y ago
      > Increasing acceptance hasn't done anything positive for their depression rates, drug use rates, suicide rates, either. Bold assertion. What are you basing it on, the PIDOOMA institute report? > Trans culture, at least in part and mostly why it's slanted so far MtF is because autism affects men more than women and they internalized the porn differently in that they'd just tther be the women seen in the porn. > Trans and Incel culture are two sides of the same coin Imho. No, you just have no bloody idea what you are talking about, and are blindly parroting talking points that you decided sounded right: you started out with a falsehood, followed by a bunch of not even wrong assertions, throwing in a couple of articles - very loosely related to at most one of your assertions - to give them the appearance of respectability. > Why do you think trans people call people bigots for not wanting to sleep with them.? If you simply cannot control your need to engage in culture war bullshit - targeting an already extremely victimized minority to do so - could you kindly do so in a less boring manner?
      - kelseyfrog 5y ago
        I'm on the fence on whether luring people like this out with "tell me more(about your incredibly naive and bigoted takes)" is worth it. On one hand they are clearly bursting at the seams with garbage and cannot hold back at the opportunity to implicate themselves. Never stop an opponent from making an error. On the other hand, it has the potential for readers to mistake their drivel for substantive discourse.
- haswell 5y ago
  > And we're past the point of telling parents to parent. This, to me, is the root of the issue with this stance. Say what you will about modern parenting, handing the reins to the government is guaranteed to be worse. The effect of porn is still not fully understood, and is the subject of much study (and conjecture). Findings from those studies are far from conclusive, and certainly not to a degree that would warrant this level of government intervention. Make no mistake, these new proposed rules are a “moral” stance to please a certain demographic, not a stance based on good science or understanding of the topic. You might find it interesting to read about the history of sexual violence in the world. Violence that still exists, yes, but some would argue that porn has provided an outlet where one can explore fantasies safely. You claim without evidence that right wing incels exist because of porn - a dubious claim at best. You claim without evidence (or understanding of the underlying psychology) that trans people only exist because of porn - this is where the argument becomes preposterous.
- jevoten 5y ago
  > Your right to watch a husband wearing a chastity cage while his wife pulls a creampie gangbang of race-exploited BBCs will be preserved man. You just gotta show ID. You misunderstand. I'm saying that such material is by far not the only thing that will be, or is, censored. See for example anti-drug-war sites getting swept under the "porn filter", while pro-drug-war sites are exempt [1]. Torrentfreak and linuxtracker were also censored [2]. Of course every attempt will be made to pretend, as you have done, that only porn will be censored, and to paint everyone that argues against this as a pro-child-access-to-porn activist. [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uk-porn-filters-are-censo_b_5564553 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uk-porn-filters-are-censo_b_5... [2] https://torrentfreak.com/uk-porn-filter-triggers-widespread-internet-censorship-140702/ https://torrentfreak.com/uk-porn-filter-triggers-widespread-...
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    I wouldn't have a nationalized filter. I'd require any US site, including search engines, to provide their own age verification system.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

dragonwriter 5y ago
Limits on who can access certain content are a form of censorship. That they have existed for a long time or that you approve of the particular one doesn't change that.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  Oh good grief. Technically, yes. But my kid's Kindle not being able to access Xhamster is not what most people have in mind when we talk about censorship.
kelseyfrog 5y ago
Help me understand. Are you saying we would be better off if there were fewer trans people?
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  A growing population who needs surgery and psychiatric care is a problem, yes. Increasing acceptance hasn't done anything positive for their depression rates, drug use rates, suicide rates, either. So yeah. I don't see this population growing as a good thing for anyone. Im not advocating eradication of them or anything negative. But I do think when we have kids who trend towards narcissistic personality disorder, that the web exacerbates ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/) And a population that trends autistic (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/the-link-between-autism-and-trans-identity/507509/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/the-link-...) That porn culture and identity politics culture sucking them up in a vacuum isn't a positive thing. This isn't something we want to encourage to grow. Incel culture is largely men growing up on porn mad at their inadequacy in obtaining women. Trans culture, at least in part and mostly why it's slanted so far MtF is because autism affects men more than women and they internalized the porn differently in that they'd just tther be the women seen in the porn. Trans and Incel culture are two sides of the same coin Imho. Why do you think trans people call people bigots for not wanting to sleep with them.? Who's thst sound like? Oh yeah.. Incels. Who thinks they're owed sex. Its a political divide of the same base problems.
  - haswell 5y ago
    > Trans culture, at least in part and mostly why it's slanted so far MtF is because autism affects men more than women and they internalized the porn differently Where is this coming from? This is such a reductionist take on an extremely complex issue. If you have studies to share, I’d be interested to read them. If you’re basing your conclusions on extreme subreddits or similar places, I would remind you that Reddit is not a direct reflection of society as a whole. Nor are some of the personalities there a direct reflection of their counterparts in other parts of the real world.
  - kelseyfrog 5y ago
    What would happen to you had positive views about trans people? Would your life be any better or worse?
  - mftrhu 5y ago
    > Increasing acceptance hasn't done anything positive for their depression rates, drug use rates, suicide rates, either. Bold assertion. What are you basing it on, the PIDOOMA institute report? > Trans culture, at least in part and mostly why it's slanted so far MtF is because autism affects men more than women and they internalized the porn differently in that they'd just tther be the women seen in the porn. > Trans and Incel culture are two sides of the same coin Imho. No, you just have no bloody idea what you are talking about, and are blindly parroting talking points that you decided sounded right: you started out with a falsehood, followed by a bunch of not even wrong assertions, throwing in a couple of articles - very loosely related to at most one of your assertions - to give them the appearance of respectability. > Why do you think trans people call people bigots for not wanting to sleep with them.? If you simply cannot control your need to engage in culture war bullshit - targeting an already extremely victimized minority to do so - could you kindly do so in a less boring manner?
    - kelseyfrog 5y ago
      I'm on the fence on whether luring people like this out with "tell me more(about your incredibly naive and bigoted takes)" is worth it. On one hand they are clearly bursting at the seams with garbage and cannot hold back at the opportunity to implicate themselves. Never stop an opponent from making an error. On the other hand, it has the potential for readers to mistake their drivel for substantive discourse.
haswell 5y ago
> And we're past the point of telling parents to parent. This, to me, is the root of the issue with this stance. Say what you will about modern parenting, handing the reins to the government is guaranteed to be worse. The effect of porn is still not fully understood, and is the subject of much study (and conjecture). Findings from those studies are far from conclusive, and certainly not to a degree that would warrant this level of government intervention. Make no mistake, these new proposed rules are a “moral” stance to please a certain demographic, not a stance based on good science or understanding of the topic. You might find it interesting to read about the history of sexual violence in the world. Violence that still exists, yes, but some would argue that porn has provided an outlet where one can explore fantasies safely. You claim without evidence that right wing incels exist because of porn - a dubious claim at best. You claim without evidence (or understanding of the underlying psychology) that trans people only exist because of porn - this is where the argument becomes preposterous.
jevoten 5y ago
> Your right to watch a husband wearing a chastity cage while his wife pulls a creampie gangbang of race-exploited BBCs will be preserved man. You just gotta show ID. You misunderstand. I'm saying that such material is by far not the only thing that will be, or is, censored. See for example anti-drug-war sites getting swept under the "porn filter", while pro-drug-war sites are exempt [1]. Torrentfreak and linuxtracker were also censored [2]. Of course every attempt will be made to pretend, as you have done, that only porn will be censored, and to paint everyone that argues against this as a pro-child-access-to-porn activist. [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uk-porn-filters-are-censo_b_5564553 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uk-porn-filters-are-censo_b_5... [2] https://torrentfreak.com/uk-porn-filter-triggers-widespread-internet-censorship-140702/ https://torrentfreak.com/uk-porn-filter-triggers-widespread-...
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  I wouldn't have a nationalized filter. I'd require any US site, including search engines, to provide their own age verification system.