4 ms·

At the very start of the article, I was deathly afraid the author would conclude these people should be paid more. Most of the white (not going to sugar coat th

At the very start of the article, I was deathly afraid the author would conclude these people should be paid more. Most of the white (not going to sugar coat this) liberals in Brooklyn don’t actually have any firm values of their own; they’re just floating along with the cultural tide and trying to fit into the bubble. If they had their own money, they would definitely shut up more-whether or not they contribute anything to society and deserve more is a separate question.

iqanq 5y ago
[flagged]
- drnonsense42 5y ago
  In this context, people born in the US who circle Caucasian when filling out their college applications honestly, and this Brooklyn white journo caste is typically middleclass+.
heavenlyblue 5y ago
> Most of the white (not going to sugar coat this) liberals in Brooklyn don’t actually have any firm values of their own and are just trying to fit into the bubble. Arguably neither do most of the Christians
- drnonsense42 5y ago
  I am definitely not a Christian but I find that statement blatantly ridiculous and counterfactual. A Christian will hold a firm set of values for their entire life, whether or not they actually practice those values (not a Christian-specific problem). The average Brooklyn liberal will give Lindsey Graham or Biden a run for their money on flip flopping as the breeze changes.
  - kuhewa 5y ago
    The only value they necessarily hold is that faith alone yields salvation, i.e. fuck up all you want if you ask for forgiveness. maybe you can include some obvious ones like 'dont murder'.
  - amcoastal 5y ago
    - drnonsense42 5y ago
      This reads more like a haphazardly-inserted, boring and vanilla anti-Trump virtue signal rather than a thoughtful critique on Christian values.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - kcb 5y ago
    Meh Christian values are not so well defined
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > I am definitely not a Christian but I find that statement blatantly ridiculous and counterfactual. I am a Christian, and stop trying to use Christians as a target of the “noble savage” trope. > A Christian will hold a firm set of values for their entire life Not more likely than anyone else. > whether or not they actually practice those values If a belief you state doesn't guide your decision-making, it's not a value just a PR position. But Christians also, while remaining Christians, can drift around a pretty broad space of even public moral positions. > The average Brooklyn liberal will give Lindsey Graham or Biden a run for their money on flip flopping as the breeze changes. It's interesting that the people you use as touchstones of flipflopping, despite your claim that Christians are universally steadfast, are both Christians.
necrotic_comp 5y ago
What does it mean "don't have any firm values of their own" ? What kind of example can you provide ?
- h2odragon 5y ago
  An example might be someone who once said "Labeling records for language is fascism!" but now fully supports blocking the distribution of content they now find offensive. Some people cannot see the contradiction, to them it seems a matter of "but thats what we want" alone.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  A lot of people pick teams and shape their values based on what the team tells them. You see that a lot in political parties. When “their” party pushes for something their supporters are for it. When the “other” party pushes something they are automatically against it. Same with the latest calls for censorship. People would be outraged if the “other” side had called for censorship but if “their” side calls for censorship they support it. Also see allegations about sexually abuse. People’s level of outrage about allegations is usually closely correlated with how much they agree with the person otherwise.
malandrew 5y ago
The main reason I want them to be paid more has nothing to do with deserving more. The overwhelming majority of journalists certainly don’t do work that deserves higher pay. The problem with the low pay is that they become highly prone to viewing the world as much worse than it is and sowing discontent. A financially comfortable journalistic class that feels the weight of taxes is more likely to defend hard work and keeping the fruits of their labor instead of arguing for an ever larger unaccountable and ineffective government apparatus to fix problems that they could fix themselves with their own money.
- drnonsense42 5y ago
  Yes- that’s roughly what I’m saying as well - they would shut up more if they were beholden to a corporation that feeds them a lot more. I conclude differently than you in that I take issue with what I interpret to believe would be society bribing them to achieve this outcome. Many of them have a deeply negative impact on society, so it sounds like paying off someone to stop a temper tantrum, which is a hard pill to swallow for me.
- scandox 5y ago
  > they become highly prone to viewing the world as much worse than it is and sowing discontent So pay them to keep them sweet so they can accurately portray people's live back to them as being wonderful? I don't think it takes poorly paid journos to "sow discontent". The fact is people need their material needs met and a sense of self-respect to be content. Many people really do not have those 2 things.

iqanq 5y ago

[flagged]

drnonsense42 5y ago
In this context, people born in the US who circle Caucasian when filling out their college applications honestly, and this Brooklyn white journo caste is typically middleclass+.

heavenlyblue 5y ago

> Most of the white (not going to sugar coat this) liberals in Brooklyn don’t actually have any firm values of their own and are just trying to fit into the bubble. Arguably neither do most of the Christians

drnonsense42 5y ago
I am definitely not a Christian but I find that statement blatantly ridiculous and counterfactual. A Christian will hold a firm set of values for their entire life, whether or not they actually practice those values (not a Christian-specific problem). The average Brooklyn liberal will give Lindsey Graham or Biden a run for their money on flip flopping as the breeze changes.
- kuhewa 5y ago
  The only value they necessarily hold is that faith alone yields salvation, i.e. fuck up all you want if you ask for forgiveness. maybe you can include some obvious ones like 'dont murder'.
- amcoastal 5y ago
  - drnonsense42 5y ago
    This reads more like a haphazardly-inserted, boring and vanilla anti-Trump virtue signal rather than a thoughtful critique on Christian values.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- kcb 5y ago
  Meh Christian values are not so well defined
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I am definitely not a Christian but I find that statement blatantly ridiculous and counterfactual. I am a Christian, and stop trying to use Christians as a target of the “noble savage” trope. > A Christian will hold a firm set of values for their entire life Not more likely than anyone else. > whether or not they actually practice those values If a belief you state doesn't guide your decision-making, it's not a value just a PR position. But Christians also, while remaining Christians, can drift around a pretty broad space of even public moral positions. > The average Brooklyn liberal will give Lindsey Graham or Biden a run for their money on flip flopping as the breeze changes. It's interesting that the people you use as touchstones of flipflopping, despite your claim that Christians are universally steadfast, are both Christians.

necrotic_comp 5y ago

What does it mean "don't have any firm values of their own" ? What kind of example can you provide ?

h2odragon 5y ago
An example might be someone who once said "Labeling records for language is fascism!" but now fully supports blocking the distribution of content they now find offensive. Some people cannot see the contradiction, to them it seems a matter of "but thats what we want" alone.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
A lot of people pick teams and shape their values based on what the team tells them. You see that a lot in political parties. When “their” party pushes for something their supporters are for it. When the “other” party pushes something they are automatically against it. Same with the latest calls for censorship. People would be outraged if the “other” side had called for censorship but if “their” side calls for censorship they support it. Also see allegations about sexually abuse. People’s level of outrage about allegations is usually closely correlated with how much they agree with the person otherwise.

malandrew 5y ago

The main reason I want them to be paid more has nothing to do with deserving more. The overwhelming majority of journalists certainly don’t do work that deserves higher pay. The problem with the low pay is that they become highly prone to viewing the world as much worse than it is and sowing discontent. A financially comfortable journalistic class that feels the weight of taxes is more likely to defend hard work and keeping the fruits of their labor instead of arguing for an ever larger unaccountable and ineffective government apparatus to fix problems that they could fix themselves with their own money.

drnonsense42 5y ago
Yes- that’s roughly what I’m saying as well - they would shut up more if they were beholden to a corporation that feeds them a lot more. I conclude differently than you in that I take issue with what I interpret to believe would be society bribing them to achieve this outcome. Many of them have a deeply negative impact on society, so it sounds like paying off someone to stop a temper tantrum, which is a hard pill to swallow for me.
scandox 5y ago
> they become highly prone to viewing the world as much worse than it is and sowing discontent So pay them to keep them sweet so they can accurately portray people's live back to them as being wonderful? I don't think it takes poorly paid journos to "sow discontent". The fact is people need their material needs met and a sense of self-respect to be content. Many people really do not have those 2 things.