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Why would you encourage your kids to learn to code? Do you not like them? But seriously; I'm not planning to teach my kid to code unless he is really intereste

Why would you encourage your kids to learn to code? Do you not like them? But seriously; I'm not planning to teach my kid to code unless he is really interested in it by himself. I rather have him play outside.

bennysomething 5y ago
Me too.
senko 5y ago
This is not just a false dichotomy. This is a false dichotomy the size of an aircraft carrier.
- EL_Loco 5y ago
  Sort of. My kids love to play outside. They didn't have tablets and didn't use the computer. A great regret I have now is that during the pandemic we eventually let them play with iPads and got them Minecraft on a donated xbox. We've had to limit their use considerably, but it's still an unfair competition. Learning, exploring, playing outside offers gratification in a different way. On Minecraft he turns it on and 20 seconds later they're in this wonderful magical world where he is some sort of superhero. Imagine if they also had twenty other games to choose from? I really regret letting the genie out of the box. Wish I had waited some years more. Now their time is quite limited, but they've felt how instantly gratifying it is, and are always asking for it, whereas before, they just asked to go swimming, or take a walk in the woods, or build legos, or a dozen other awesome activities. edit: just to add, they still do lots of outside stuff, but it's not like before.
  - senko 5y ago
    Every kid is different and I try to never second-guess others' parenting style. Rules and limits are important and I agree the screen offers quicker gratification, so we as parents must set and enforce those rules. That said, this changes the subject a bit, as we were talking about learning to code. That's empathically not an instant gratification and we should not equate time spent in front of screen with time spent learning, expanding understanding of logic, cause and effect, structure, etc. And while kids are happy to spend hours gaming, I haven't seen many (in my social circle) that would be happy spending hours debugging some Python, Lua or Sketch code.
    - EL_Loco 5y ago
      You're right, the example I gave is different from coding. I did change the subject a bit, sorry for that. By the way, my kids do some Micro:Bit programming whenever they want, and I chose not to force them into it, as in not having a structured 'learn block coding with dad' hour. If they want to do something with their Micro:Bit, they power up the computer and do it, for as long or little as they want. If they want my help, I'll help, and that's it.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  There is a finite amount of time to do stuff (per day, say) so it's a time-wise zero-sum: any time spent programming reduces time spent doing something else. Presumably the alternative to teaching them programming, is spending time with them some other way.
- dionidium 5y ago
  It's less of one than it first appears, because time isn't infinite and free time especially isn't. If you're doing one thing in that limited window of free play, then you're not doing some other thing.
rmbyrro 5y ago
Why can't they play outside and learn to code? Does it have to be 100% of the time for any of those two options?
- neoberg 5y ago
  Yes they can. That's why I said "unless he is interested on his own". I believe many parents are so set on "preparing their children for the future" that they forget about "now" and force their children to become adults too early. Children can learn programming or other skills later but playing with toys or outside is almost exclusively enjoyed in childhood. I don't want my child to miss out on them.
  - rmbyrro 5y ago
    I understand your point. By saying "teach my kids to code", I don't imply "forcing my kids" into it. Just introducing, letting them experience and know it exists, what it's for, how it works. If I don't expose them to coding, how could I ever know they're interested or not? A tangent: The two generations before mine worried too much about letting children "just play". Life was too tough on them when they were kids. And they went to the opposite extreme: made life too soft for me as a kid. I grew up with a completely wrong vision of life and the world. I entered youth totally unprepared. It's anectodal and I bet there are people who had a too soft childhood with only play and managed it differently, but I'm going to find a better balance for my kids as they grow. I want to smoothly and gently introduce pieces of adulthood to them, so that when they reach maturity, they're better prepared to be happier, more confident and independent.
    - neoberg 5y ago
      I agree with most of what you said. > If I don't expose them to coding, how could I ever know they're interested or not? About this one; programming nowadays is not some obscure niche thing that it's impossible to come by unless introduced by someone else. I started my programming career (being paid to do) when I was a teenager. There was no-one using computers around me let alone knowing what programming is to introduce it to me. I believe nowadays everyone in a somewhat developed or developing country will have the opportunity to choose whether to learn coding or not.
analog31 5y ago
I played outside, and learned to code. Still do both. But I do appreciate the caution. It seems like kids have less spare time today. Don't know if it's because schoolwork is more intense (it seems to be) or we push more activities on them (yeah, probably guilty). Or both.
bloqs 5y ago
Because people see their children as extensions of themselves, instead of individuals. There's a good amount of research connecting ADHD-type personalities with insufficient rough-and-tumble play in earlier years.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
As far as I'm aware, programming has been my favorite toy since age ~13. Of course the kid is not being forced, I interpret this as "hey kid, does this sound interesting?" Exposure to things is key.
fartcannon 5y ago
How is he going to know he's interested in an abstract concept like coding if you don't introduce him to it?
jsnodlin 5y ago
Seriously, I’m keeping my kid away from screens and phones for as long as possible in this society. I estimate I can atleast get to 4-5 years of age before having to use a computer becomes somewhat inevitable.
- neoberg 5y ago
  Yes it's the same for us. He's 3 something now and his only interaction with screens is for calling the grandparents because they are at 2 days driving distance. We don't hide screens from him tho; I think that also contributes to him not being interested in screens too much.
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  We did that with my son. He was probably five or six when we went to visit his cousins and they were all laying on the floor playing with their portable game devices (whatever they called GameBoy's back then). He didn't have one, so he picked up a travel chessboard that was about the same size as their devices and laid down next to them and stared at the chessboard the way they were staring at their devices and pretending he was playing a video game on it. Yeah, we bought him a nintendo whatever-they-were-called when we got home.

bennysomething 5y ago

Me too.

senko 5y ago

This is not just a false dichotomy. This is a false dichotomy the size of an aircraft carrier.

EL_Loco 5y ago
Sort of. My kids love to play outside. They didn't have tablets and didn't use the computer. A great regret I have now is that during the pandemic we eventually let them play with iPads and got them Minecraft on a donated xbox. We've had to limit their use considerably, but it's still an unfair competition. Learning, exploring, playing outside offers gratification in a different way. On Minecraft he turns it on and 20 seconds later they're in this wonderful magical world where he is some sort of superhero. Imagine if they also had twenty other games to choose from? I really regret letting the genie out of the box. Wish I had waited some years more. Now their time is quite limited, but they've felt how instantly gratifying it is, and are always asking for it, whereas before, they just asked to go swimming, or take a walk in the woods, or build legos, or a dozen other awesome activities. edit: just to add, they still do lots of outside stuff, but it's not like before.
- senko 5y ago
  Every kid is different and I try to never second-guess others' parenting style. Rules and limits are important and I agree the screen offers quicker gratification, so we as parents must set and enforce those rules. That said, this changes the subject a bit, as we were talking about learning to code. That's empathically not an instant gratification and we should not equate time spent in front of screen with time spent learning, expanding understanding of logic, cause and effect, structure, etc. And while kids are happy to spend hours gaming, I haven't seen many (in my social circle) that would be happy spending hours debugging some Python, Lua or Sketch code.
  - EL_Loco 5y ago
    You're right, the example I gave is different from coding. I did change the subject a bit, sorry for that. By the way, my kids do some Micro:Bit programming whenever they want, and I chose not to force them into it, as in not having a structured 'learn block coding with dad' hour. If they want to do something with their Micro:Bit, they power up the computer and do it, for as long or little as they want. If they want my help, I'll help, and that's it.
Chris2048 5y ago
There is a finite amount of time to do stuff (per day, say) so it's a time-wise zero-sum: any time spent programming reduces time spent doing something else. Presumably the alternative to teaching them programming, is spending time with them some other way.
dionidium 5y ago
It's less of one than it first appears, because time isn't infinite and free time especially isn't. If you're doing one thing in that limited window of free play, then you're not doing some other thing.

rmbyrro 5y ago

Why can't they play outside and learn to code? Does it have to be 100% of the time for any of those two options?

neoberg 5y ago
Yes they can. That's why I said "unless he is interested on his own". I believe many parents are so set on "preparing their children for the future" that they forget about "now" and force their children to become adults too early. Children can learn programming or other skills later but playing with toys or outside is almost exclusively enjoyed in childhood. I don't want my child to miss out on them.
- rmbyrro 5y ago
  I understand your point. By saying "teach my kids to code", I don't imply "forcing my kids" into it. Just introducing, letting them experience and know it exists, what it's for, how it works. If I don't expose them to coding, how could I ever know they're interested or not? A tangent: The two generations before mine worried too much about letting children "just play". Life was too tough on them when they were kids. And they went to the opposite extreme: made life too soft for me as a kid. I grew up with a completely wrong vision of life and the world. I entered youth totally unprepared. It's anectodal and I bet there are people who had a too soft childhood with only play and managed it differently, but I'm going to find a better balance for my kids as they grow. I want to smoothly and gently introduce pieces of adulthood to them, so that when they reach maturity, they're better prepared to be happier, more confident and independent.
  - neoberg 5y ago
    I agree with most of what you said. > If I don't expose them to coding, how could I ever know they're interested or not? About this one; programming nowadays is not some obscure niche thing that it's impossible to come by unless introduced by someone else. I started my programming career (being paid to do) when I was a teenager. There was no-one using computers around me let alone knowing what programming is to introduce it to me. I believe nowadays everyone in a somewhat developed or developing country will have the opportunity to choose whether to learn coding or not.

analog31 5y ago

I played outside, and learned to code. Still do both. But I do appreciate the caution. It seems like kids have less spare time today. Don't know if it's because schoolwork is more intense (it seems to be) or we push more activities on them (yeah, probably guilty). Or both.

bloqs 5y ago

Because people see their children as extensions of themselves, instead of individuals. There's a good amount of research connecting ADHD-type personalities with insufficient rough-and-tumble play in earlier years.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

As far as I'm aware, programming has been my favorite toy since age ~13. Of course the kid is not being forced, I interpret this as "hey kid, does this sound interesting?" Exposure to things is key.

fartcannon 5y ago

How is he going to know he's interested in an abstract concept like coding if you don't introduce him to it?

jsnodlin 5y ago

Seriously, I’m keeping my kid away from screens and phones for as long as possible in this society. I estimate I can atleast get to 4-5 years of age before having to use a computer becomes somewhat inevitable.

neoberg 5y ago
Yes it's the same for us. He's 3 something now and his only interaction with screens is for calling the grandparents because they are at 2 days driving distance. We don't hide screens from him tho; I think that also contributes to him not being interested in screens too much.
commandlinefan 5y ago
We did that with my son. He was probably five or six when we went to visit his cousins and they were all laying on the floor playing with their portable game devices (whatever they called GameBoy's back then). He didn't have one, so he picked up a travel chessboard that was about the same size as their devices and laid down next to them and stared at the chessboard the way they were staring at their devices and pretending he was playing a video game on it. Yeah, we bought him a nintendo whatever-they-were-called when we got home.