3 ms·

I know what Dennard scaling is, that's not what anybody is referring to when talking about process improvements. The technology has improved since then. And it

I know what Dennard scaling is, that's not what anybody is referring to when talking about process improvements. The technology has improved since then. And it will continue to improve.

MayeulC 5y ago
Right (I'm also providing links for other readers). However, when mentioning the "nanometers" process node as evidence for scaling (it was unclear to me whether you said that it implied shrinking, or there had been some shrinking in between the two), I feel like I have to mention that transistors haven't been meaningfully shrunk for years, although there have been plenty of innovations regarding their layout, and photolithography processes have gained in precision. Transistors are still at the hearts of ICs, so every bit of efficiency gained there has tremendous impacts on system-level performance and efficiency. Some of the biggest possible gains on the horizon might come from circuit designs, notably adiabatic computing.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  > However, when mentioning the "nanometers" process node as evidence for scaling (it was unclear to me whether you said that it implied shrinking, or there had been some shrinking in between the two), No, my intention was actually converse of that, saying that transistors still shink, even in leading edge nodes today, despite popular perception. > I feel like I have to mention that transistors haven't been meaningfully shrunk for years, although there have been plenty of innovations regarding their layout, and photolithography processes have gained in precision. TSMC 7nm->5nm increased transistor density by 80%. There were other changes to minimum cell size too, but both are 6T in this case so the overall device that can operate as a transistor in a VLSI does absolutely shrink. Dennard scaling ending isn't about not shrinking, it's about power density going up. Even then things are not standing still, practical designs absolutely get denser and do more work even in the logic parts of the design. It's just doesn't double every couple of years anymore.

I know what Dennard scaling is, that's not what anybody is referring to when talking about process improvements. The technology has improved since then. And it will continue to improve.

MayeulC 5y ago

Right (I'm also providing links for other readers). However, when mentioning the "nanometers" process node as evidence for scaling (it was unclear to me whether you said that it implied shrinking, or there had been some shrinking in between the two), I feel like I have to mention that transistors haven't been meaningfully shrunk for years, although there have been plenty of innovations regarding their layout, and photolithography processes have gained in precision. Transistors are still at the hearts of ICs, so every bit of efficiency gained there has tremendous impacts on system-level performance and efficiency. Some of the biggest possible gains on the horizon might come from circuit designs, notably adiabatic computing.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
> However, when mentioning the "nanometers" process node as evidence for scaling (it was unclear to me whether you said that it implied shrinking, or there had been some shrinking in between the two), No, my intention was actually converse of that, saying that transistors still shink, even in leading edge nodes today, despite popular perception. > I feel like I have to mention that transistors haven't been meaningfully shrunk for years, although there have been plenty of innovations regarding their layout, and photolithography processes have gained in precision. TSMC 7nm->5nm increased transistor density by 80%. There were other changes to minimum cell size too, but both are 6T in this case so the overall device that can operate as a transistor in a VLSI does absolutely shrink. Dennard scaling ending isn't about not shrinking, it's about power density going up. Even then things are not standing still, practical designs absolutely get denser and do more work even in the logic parts of the design. It's just doesn't double every couple of years anymore.