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While I don't have an answer to your exact question (I suspect its somewhat arbitrary), it's interesting to note that some countries (I think Germany?) have str

While I don't have an answer to your exact question (I suspect its somewhat arbitrary), it's interesting to note that some countries (I think Germany?) have strict regulations about using the term "Engineer" as a job position title. I believe they require you to have passed specific qualifications and have engineering accreditations.

bliblablubb2 5y ago
Funny, I actually am from Germany and it feels just as arbitrary.
- samwillis 5y ago
  May well be wrong about Germany then. I do know there are regular arguments here in the UK about the "Architect" title, the RIBA (the Royal Institute of British Architects) regularly sue people who call themselves Architects but don't have the qualification or aren't payed up members. This includes "software architects". People who work in building architecture but haven't got enough qualifications often call themselves "architectural designers" to get around the rules.
  - jstx1 5y ago
    Really? I've worked in small and large local and multinational companies in the UK - many people have an architect job title without any qualifications and it's never been a problem. It's not just "architect" on its own, there's usually some prefix like software/cloud/data/infrastructure/solutions architect.
    - samwillis 5y ago
      Your right, looks like there was a debate about it all about 10-15 years ago but from the ARB: > "We take a common sense approach to the use of ‘architect’ that isn’t connected to building and design, for example with ‘software architect’ or ‘systems architect’ which are increasingly used by the computer and IT industry." https://arb.org.uk/architect-information/what-we-do-to-regulate-the-use-of-the-title-architect/ https://arb.org.uk/architect-information/what-we-do-to-regul...
  - johntdaly 5y ago
    I don’t think you are wrong about Engineer in Germany but it just doesn’t apply to software. If you go into classical engineering there are rules. For example you couldn’t call yourself a civil engineer (‘Bauingenieur’) in Germany. If you are outside of classical engineering fields nobody gives a shit. You could call your self a “culinary engineer” and nobody would care. Computer sience is usualy grouped with mathematics so it too falls outside of classical engineering. We as a group just LIKE to see what we are doing as engineering to differentiate us from those that "just code".
trinovantes 5y ago
"Engineer" is a protected job title like doctor in many jurisdictions not just in EU but it's just seldom enforced so nobody really cares. In Ontario, it's somewhat more strict so many large company job listings use "developer" to avoid lawsuits https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illegal-practice/report-unlicensed-individuals-or-companies-2#software https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illeg... For example in Waterloo Ontario, Google job listings all use Developer: https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=Waterloo,%20Canada&q=engineering https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=Waterloo,%... Whereas in San Francisco, Google job listings use Engineer: https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=San%20Francisco,%20CA,%20USA&q=engineering https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=San%20Fran...

bliblablubb2 5y ago

Funny, I actually am from Germany and it feels just as arbitrary.

samwillis 5y ago
May well be wrong about Germany then. I do know there are regular arguments here in the UK about the "Architect" title, the RIBA (the Royal Institute of British Architects) regularly sue people who call themselves Architects but don't have the qualification or aren't payed up members. This includes "software architects". People who work in building architecture but haven't got enough qualifications often call themselves "architectural designers" to get around the rules.
- jstx1 5y ago
  Really? I've worked in small and large local and multinational companies in the UK - many people have an architect job title without any qualifications and it's never been a problem. It's not just "architect" on its own, there's usually some prefix like software/cloud/data/infrastructure/solutions architect.
  - samwillis 5y ago
    Your right, looks like there was a debate about it all about 10-15 years ago but from the ARB: > "We take a common sense approach to the use of ‘architect’ that isn’t connected to building and design, for example with ‘software architect’ or ‘systems architect’ which are increasingly used by the computer and IT industry." https://arb.org.uk/architect-information/what-we-do-to-regulate-the-use-of-the-title-architect/ https://arb.org.uk/architect-information/what-we-do-to-regul...
- johntdaly 5y ago
  I don’t think you are wrong about Engineer in Germany but it just doesn’t apply to software. If you go into classical engineering there are rules. For example you couldn’t call yourself a civil engineer (‘Bauingenieur’) in Germany. If you are outside of classical engineering fields nobody gives a shit. You could call your self a “culinary engineer” and nobody would care. Computer sience is usualy grouped with mathematics so it too falls outside of classical engineering. We as a group just LIKE to see what we are doing as engineering to differentiate us from those that "just code".

trinovantes 5y ago

"Engineer" is a protected job title like doctor in many jurisdictions not just in EU but it's just seldom enforced so nobody really cares. In Ontario, it's somewhat more strict so many large company job listings use "developer" to avoid lawsuits https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illegal-practice/report-unlicensed-individuals-or-companies-2#software https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illeg... For example in Waterloo Ontario, Google job listings all use Developer: https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=Waterloo,%20Canada&q=engineering https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=Waterloo,%... Whereas in San Francisco, Google job listings use Engineer: https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=San%20Francisco,%20CA,%20USA&q=engineering https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=San%20Fran...