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> the earlier it is learnt the better. I'm not really sure how much this applies to coding really. There are things like music or drawing or handwork or mathem

by oytis 5y ago

> the earlier it is learnt the better. I'm not really sure how much this applies to coding really. There are things like music or drawing or handwork or mathematics where you can refine your skills indefinitely, and starting early does indeed help get your 10000 hours sooner. But in programming it seems to me there is only that much you can learn - and people normally grow their careers by acquiring domain knowledge and/or business skills, not refining their coding.

teucris 5y ago
We use “coding” and “programming” and “computer science” in these contexts and sell the domain short. Computational thinking and systems thinking are applicable to all aspects of life. The things taught in early coding activities are the building blocks of those domains.
- djtango 5y ago
  You're right - IIRC building the pyramids required quite strong computational thinking for example. Or the whole shipping container complex. But coding is perhaps the purest manifestation of CS in all its glory where the feedback loop is tight and the scale of system can be borderline infinite for very little cost.
  - teucris 5y ago
    Exactly. So long as we do a good job making the connection to other domains, CS is an excellent learning tool for computational thinking and systems thinking.
mdp2021 5y ago
It's for the purpose of making it natural; and there's no need to delay it.
djtango 5y ago
I've met people who started coding when they were 6 and have now compounded all that experience as they've gotten older. To me, programming is as much a skill to me as learning music or writing is. Sure, in industry some domains are learned/appreciated with age but that's considerably easier to pick up once you've mastered the abstract skill of programming. To draw analogy - composing for a genre/or emotion is a lot easier once you've mastered composition. Similarly, once you've mastered scales, arpeggios and rhythm becoming proficient in pop, jazz or classical will be comparatively painless. There are many difficult programming domains that people can get pretty good at well before they reach adulthood. Game design can span logic, rules, systems, product, testing, performance, graphics and physics. Compilers and programming languages can be grokked before uni too. Crypto also provides a gateway to web and distributed systems. Having met people who have compounded their life by learning programming XOR music (two skills I have personal experience going deep in) it is hard to comprehend how vast the difference becomes until you've seen it firsthand. At the extremes you have mozarts who compose from age 5. But even less extreme you have people like Zuckerberg or lexi-lambda building impressive programs by adolescence or Justin Biebers making music around 12. In any case, I'm also pretty confident domain acquisition can start young given that I've met people who were trading from young teens. Ultimately, school curriculums and age-based learning doesn't cater to individuals and can be artificially limiting of potential. Everything I've seen suggests that coding can be acquired from a very young age and then frees the individual up to learn all the ancillary bits as they grow up. What's unusual is we live in a time where there exists a vocational profession that pays well and isn't locked down by accreditation. (compare that with law and medicine for example)

by oytis 5y ago

teucris 5y ago

We use “coding” and “programming” and “computer science” in these contexts and sell the domain short. Computational thinking and systems thinking are applicable to all aspects of life. The things taught in early coding activities are the building blocks of those domains.

djtango 5y ago
You're right - IIRC building the pyramids required quite strong computational thinking for example. Or the whole shipping container complex. But coding is perhaps the purest manifestation of CS in all its glory where the feedback loop is tight and the scale of system can be borderline infinite for very little cost.
- teucris 5y ago
  Exactly. So long as we do a good job making the connection to other domains, CS is an excellent learning tool for computational thinking and systems thinking.

mdp2021 5y ago

It's for the purpose of making it natural; and there's no need to delay it.

djtango 5y ago

I've met people who started coding when they were 6 and have now compounded all that experience as they've gotten older. To me, programming is as much a skill to me as learning music or writing is. Sure, in industry some domains are learned/appreciated with age but that's considerably easier to pick up once you've mastered the abstract skill of programming. To draw analogy - composing for a genre/or emotion is a lot easier once you've mastered composition. Similarly, once you've mastered scales, arpeggios and rhythm becoming proficient in pop, jazz or classical will be comparatively painless. There are many difficult programming domains that people can get pretty good at well before they reach adulthood. Game design can span logic, rules, systems, product, testing, performance, graphics and physics. Compilers and programming languages can be grokked before uni too. Crypto also provides a gateway to web and distributed systems. Having met people who have compounded their life by learning programming XOR music (two skills I have personal experience going deep in) it is hard to comprehend how vast the difference becomes until you've seen it firsthand. At the extremes you have mozarts who compose from age 5. But even less extreme you have people like Zuckerberg or lexi-lambda building impressive programs by adolescence or Justin Biebers making music around 12. In any case, I'm also pretty confident domain acquisition can start young given that I've met people who were trading from young teens. Ultimately, school curriculums and age-based learning doesn't cater to individuals and can be artificially limiting of potential. Everything I've seen suggests that coding can be acquired from a very young age and then frees the individual up to learn all the ancillary bits as they grow up. What's unusual is we live in a time where there exists a vocational profession that pays well and isn't locked down by accreditation. (compare that with law and medicine for example)