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And even then, would learning to code early bring anything? IMO for schoolchildren it's better to focus on math, sciences and other things school has to offer.

by oytis 5y ago

And even then, would learning to code early bring anything? IMO for schoolchildren it's better to focus on math, sciences and other things school has to offer. Coding by itself is but a vocational skill.

Foobar8568 5y ago
Native language and math are the two most important skills we should teach to primary school students, 10h of language, reading, speaking, understanding is the basis of everything else. For math, anywhere between 5 to 10h, and remaining hours for geography /history/society /"world discovery" (basic of science)
- mdp2021 5y ago
  > language[: ]reading, speaking, understanding You forgot formulating - writing essays -: an absolute game changer, one of the most important exercises in primary schools (in some systems).
  - Foobar8568 5y ago
    Writing essay before middle school might be difficult, although dictation is a must too. In France/Switzerland, it's not expected to write long text before middle school, but what I can see, in recent times, be it in math, French or others, kids just need to "fill in the blanks" or worse, check-boxes. They don't practice writing at all.
    - mdp2021 5y ago
      In nearby systems, at 5, 6 or 7 the pupils are (were?) to write some short paragraphs, even disconnected, about a topic; from there on, pages of well connected thoughts. > be it in math, French or others, kids just need to "fill in the blanks" or worse, check-boxes This is absolutely criminal in many ways: they will not get scholarized with that. In math, we had to show that we can find a solution and show the steps; in language, you have to exercise sound thought; in notions, you have to show not just that you have them, but that you can use them. The problems with citizens wasting parts of their formative years will be socially massive. It's not about having the answers, it's about developing the skills... The answers /may/ reveal the skills.
mdp2021 5y ago
Coding is generally useful - useful for the coder -, not "just a job". (And «focus» does not mean neglecting the rest.)
- oytis 5y ago
  I think it might provide some benefits to teach problem solving with code then. E.g. modelling some concepts from maths or physics in Python or something even simpler. Or demonstrating ideas with computer animation. Not sure how far we are with platforms that allow doing that without going too deep into how computers work.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    > I think it might provide some benefits to teach problem solving with code then. E.g. modelling some concepts from maths or physics in Python or something even simpler. That's what Logo offered starting back in the 60s. Exploring different problem domains with programs. Converting some kinds of math/geometry problems into computational problems with the turtle (and, later, turtle graphics on the screen). Language problems were similarly addressed, but most people just remember the graphical parts.
JCharante 5y ago
Programming helped me learn math. Implementing algorithms you learn about in class can be beneficial, and yes it's a vocational skill but allows you to do a lot of things for fun. Running a club? Want to help organize a 5k? Well now you're tech literate so you can run the websites. Although I think woodworking would be a nice skill to teach kids too.

by oytis 5y ago

Foobar8568 5y ago

Native language and math are the two most important skills we should teach to primary school students, 10h of language, reading, speaking, understanding is the basis of everything else. For math, anywhere between 5 to 10h, and remaining hours for geography /history/society /"world discovery" (basic of science)

mdp2021 5y ago
> language[: ]reading, speaking, understanding You forgot formulating - writing essays -: an absolute game changer, one of the most important exercises in primary schools (in some systems).
- Foobar8568 5y ago
  Writing essay before middle school might be difficult, although dictation is a must too. In France/Switzerland, it's not expected to write long text before middle school, but what I can see, in recent times, be it in math, French or others, kids just need to "fill in the blanks" or worse, check-boxes. They don't practice writing at all.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    In nearby systems, at 5, 6 or 7 the pupils are (were?) to write some short paragraphs, even disconnected, about a topic; from there on, pages of well connected thoughts. > be it in math, French or others, kids just need to "fill in the blanks" or worse, check-boxes This is absolutely criminal in many ways: they will not get scholarized with that. In math, we had to show that we can find a solution and show the steps; in language, you have to exercise sound thought; in notions, you have to show not just that you have them, but that you can use them. The problems with citizens wasting parts of their formative years will be socially massive. It's not about having the answers, it's about developing the skills... The answers /may/ reveal the skills.

mdp2021 5y ago

Coding is generally useful - useful for the coder -, not "just a job". (And «focus» does not mean neglecting the rest.)

oytis 5y ago
I think it might provide some benefits to teach problem solving with code then. E.g. modelling some concepts from maths or physics in Python or something even simpler. Or demonstrating ideas with computer animation. Not sure how far we are with platforms that allow doing that without going too deep into how computers work.
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  > I think it might provide some benefits to teach problem solving with code then. E.g. modelling some concepts from maths or physics in Python or something even simpler. That's what Logo offered starting back in the 60s. Exploring different problem domains with programs. Converting some kinds of math/geometry problems into computational problems with the turtle (and, later, turtle graphics on the screen). Language problems were similarly addressed, but most people just remember the graphical parts.

JCharante 5y ago

Programming helped me learn math. Implementing algorithms you learn about in class can be beneficial, and yes it's a vocational skill but allows you to do a lot of things for fun. Running a club? Want to help organize a 5k? Well now you're tech literate so you can run the websites. Although I think woodworking would be a nice skill to teach kids too.