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> there is little reason to run native apps, There are plenty. I like both worlds. Telegram for example is a good example of an unneeded desktop app that lives

> there is little reason to run native apps, There are plenty. I like both worlds. Telegram for example is a good example of an unneeded desktop app that lives fine in the browser ( web.telegram.org ), multiple versions, regular updates, platform independent. On the other side there is signal, which forces to use a very shitty desktop app (or maybe I have not found a better yet). It just sucks. On linux I have no issues installing "native" apps whatsoever. My editor (emacs), cad software, music player (!) - sure spotify works, but I like my network transparent MPD way more. I could go a lot farhther. Iam curious about (cloud-)gaming since I actually was very suprised how good it can work. Edit: Why is this downvoted? What am I doing wrong?

neop1x 5y ago
Telegram desktop app is awesome. For me it is a great example of a native app. J ahd zero troubles with it. It is fast, it doesn't consume a lot of RAM and no Electron is bundled. I am glad to see someone is still developing native apps.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  It's built with Qt :)
- entropie 5y ago
  > Telegram desktop app is awesome. I think I tried it at one point and didn't dislike it. I multiboot linux and windows and from day one it felt very comfortable to have a sticky telegram tab in my eternal browser session on both OS that behave the same.
bakuninsbart 5y ago
I've been using GeForce Now quite a bit to play games that do not run on my laptop. The required internet speed is probably out of reach for most non-urbanites at the moment, but the concept does not really require a Native App, since it is basically video streaming with interactivity, and could probably easily move to the browser in the future. Cloud gaming is one of the technologies I'm quite unsure about, it could become the de-facto standard in the coming decade, or it could remain a niche, all depending on consumer preferences and network infrastructure.
- catbuttes 5y ago
  GeForce Now already works on browsers. It requires Chrome or iOS Safari (I suspect this one was the driving force behind it due to apples app store rules). Just go to https://play.geforcenow.com/ https://play.geforcenow.com/ and it shows you what to do...
- dustymcp 5y ago
  For some games it might be reasonable but the ones i tried with my 100/100 mbit are miles away from the native experience.
- pph 5y ago
  In my experience it works for mostly static games - most others are not fun due to the additional latencies. If you're close enough to the server and not too sensitive it might be enjoyable, but also some genres are just unplayable IMO (e.g. FPS, roguelikes, racing games).
nicce 5y ago
> On the other side there is signal, which forces to use a very shitty desktop app (or maybe I have not found a better yet). It just sucks. Usability is often the enemy of the security. Signal is full E2EE, including metadata. It compromises security in many ways when using a browser sharing the keys which were originally meant for single receiver and sender. (e.g malicious browser extensions could access the data). Signal has chosen to implement only their own desktop app. And as their server side is kinda closed and not self-hostable, it is unlikely that we see other clients for a while.
- rkangel 5y ago
  I don't see what the difference is in security architecture between a desktop app and a web app implementing the same scheme? My assumption is that you've got an E2EE link between the Signal app on the phone and the desktop app (with the messages decrypted on your phone in the middle). Why can't you do exactly the same thing with a web app?
  - nicce 5y ago
    > I don't see what the difference is in security architecture between a desktop app and a web app implementing the same scheme? I just gave an example - execution environment is accessible by browser extensions. All the code and runtime data is visible for them with certain permissions.
    - boring_twenties 5y ago
      How is that different from the desktop app? All the code and runtime data is visible to anyone running under the same uid, or the superuser.
      - nicce 5y ago
        No, they aren’t visible by default. Kernel isolates the memory space for every process. One of the basic fundamental things. Browser extensions can additionally modify code on the fly. On desktops it is really difficult since you need to inject code into memory. You are doing something wrong if you run your app as superuser or grant too much permissions by default.
user-the-name 5y ago
> On linux I have no issues installing "native" apps whatsoever You should. Linux provides pretty much zero protection for your data. Any app you install can spy on the data of any other app you're using, and all your personal files. Other OSes are slowly introducing some limitations and protections here, but Linux is really not doing much at all.
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
  On Linux there's Flatpak and Wayland which aim to introduce more protection
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Not meaningfully. If you have to install an app, only putting it in a VM can ever help much. If you run X (except on Qubes!) any program can see everything every other X program is doing -- all keystrokes, all mouse clicks, all pixels.
    - nicce 5y ago
      This is not true. You can write AppArmor rules which can restrict pretty much everything. SELinux is also a thing, and introduces a lot of features that you can't see in the Windows for example. > X program is doing -- all keystrokes, all mouse clicks, all pixels. Parent was mentioning Wayland specifically to remove this threat.
      - drran 5y ago
        In Linux, just run an app as separate user. Linux is a multi-tenant OS, so users are well protected from each other. If you need to share files with program, share them via a shared folder, e.g. `/tmp`.
        CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
        Doesn't sound very practical, especially for grahical programs.

neop1x 5y ago

Telegram desktop app is awesome. For me it is a great example of a native app. J ahd zero troubles with it. It is fast, it doesn't consume a lot of RAM and no Electron is bundled. I am glad to see someone is still developing native apps.

jcelerier 5y ago
It's built with Qt :)
entropie 5y ago
> Telegram desktop app is awesome. I think I tried it at one point and didn't dislike it. I multiboot linux and windows and from day one it felt very comfortable to have a sticky telegram tab in my eternal browser session on both OS that behave the same.

bakuninsbart 5y ago

I've been using GeForce Now quite a bit to play games that do not run on my laptop. The required internet speed is probably out of reach for most non-urbanites at the moment, but the concept does not really require a Native App, since it is basically video streaming with interactivity, and could probably easily move to the browser in the future. Cloud gaming is one of the technologies I'm quite unsure about, it could become the de-facto standard in the coming decade, or it could remain a niche, all depending on consumer preferences and network infrastructure.

catbuttes 5y ago
GeForce Now already works on browsers. It requires Chrome or iOS Safari (I suspect this one was the driving force behind it due to apples app store rules). Just go to https://play.geforcenow.com/ https://play.geforcenow.com/ and it shows you what to do...
dustymcp 5y ago
For some games it might be reasonable but the ones i tried with my 100/100 mbit are miles away from the native experience.
pph 5y ago
In my experience it works for mostly static games - most others are not fun due to the additional latencies. If you're close enough to the server and not too sensitive it might be enjoyable, but also some genres are just unplayable IMO (e.g. FPS, roguelikes, racing games).

nicce 5y ago

> On the other side there is signal, which forces to use a very shitty desktop app (or maybe I have not found a better yet). It just sucks. Usability is often the enemy of the security. Signal is full E2EE, including metadata. It compromises security in many ways when using a browser sharing the keys which were originally meant for single receiver and sender. (e.g malicious browser extensions could access the data). Signal has chosen to implement only their own desktop app. And as their server side is kinda closed and not self-hostable, it is unlikely that we see other clients for a while.

rkangel 5y ago
I don't see what the difference is in security architecture between a desktop app and a web app implementing the same scheme? My assumption is that you've got an E2EE link between the Signal app on the phone and the desktop app (with the messages decrypted on your phone in the middle). Why can't you do exactly the same thing with a web app?
- nicce 5y ago
  > I don't see what the difference is in security architecture between a desktop app and a web app implementing the same scheme? I just gave an example - execution environment is accessible by browser extensions. All the code and runtime data is visible for them with certain permissions.
  - boring_twenties 5y ago
    How is that different from the desktop app? All the code and runtime data is visible to anyone running under the same uid, or the superuser.
    - nicce 5y ago
      No, they aren’t visible by default. Kernel isolates the memory space for every process. One of the basic fundamental things. Browser extensions can additionally modify code on the fly. On desktops it is really difficult since you need to inject code into memory. You are doing something wrong if you run your app as superuser or grant too much permissions by default.

user-the-name 5y ago

> On linux I have no issues installing "native" apps whatsoever You should. Linux provides pretty much zero protection for your data. Any app you install can spy on the data of any other app you're using, and all your personal files. Other OSes are slowly introducing some limitations and protections here, but Linux is really not doing much at all.

CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
On Linux there's Flatpak and Wayland which aim to introduce more protection
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Not meaningfully. If you have to install an app, only putting it in a VM can ever help much. If you run X (except on Qubes!) any program can see everything every other X program is doing -- all keystrokes, all mouse clicks, all pixels.
  - nicce 5y ago
    This is not true. You can write AppArmor rules which can restrict pretty much everything. SELinux is also a thing, and introduces a lot of features that you can't see in the Windows for example. > X program is doing -- all keystrokes, all mouse clicks, all pixels. Parent was mentioning Wayland specifically to remove this threat.
    - drran 5y ago
      In Linux, just run an app as separate user. Linux is a multi-tenant OS, so users are well protected from each other. If you need to share files with program, share them via a shared folder, e.g. `/tmp`.
      - CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
        Doesn't sound very practical, especially for grahical programs.