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For most people the said security is not a big issue. Esp. in countries where police can come for you and make you talk by any means. E2EE won't help you if the

by konart 5y ago

For most people the said security is not a big issue. Esp. in countries where police can come for you and make you talk by any means. E2EE won't help you if they want you.

smt88 5y ago
"Encryption isn't useful because you can be tortured" is a bizarre and ridiculous argument. The police can only make you talk if they know who to make talk in the first place. Reading your messages tells them who to interrogate, where to find them, who else is involved, etc. Encryption is important especially in such countries.
- j16sdiz 5y ago
  It is encrypted, just not e2ee. The police need to crack the encryption protocol (not impossible, telegram use non-standard crypto), or somehow gain access to telegram's server farm.
  - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
    Wasn't it fixed? It was almost e2ee, but not really due to a bug as it trusted the server, but it was fixed save for key verification, but AFAIK, key verification is an open problem in e2ee.
  - throwjs51009 5y ago
    That's not true. Nobody needs to crack any encryption. Check my other comment with 3 links.
- konart 5y ago
  I'm sorry but as someone from Russia - you are wrong. >Reading your messages tells them who to interrogate, where to find them, who else is involved, etc. Why read my messages if they can start from me? Or that other guy who posted something on twitter? Or any other place? Or talked to someone. I'm not saying encryption is unimportant. I'm saying that it really only matters as long as all parties involved keep their business secure in the first place. Not to mention that they police don't really work with that kind of precision here.
  - gonehome 5y ago
    It's not a binary thing. If you can choose secure communication vs. insecure communication you're better off choosing secure. You're right of course this doesn't protect you 100%, but it's a lot better than not having secure communication. Does that mean even with Signal your friend could be compelled to unlock their phone and reveal the comms? Sure. It's still better to have that be the requirement than access to all comms by default. It requires more specific and high effort targeting. It makes it harder to just query keywords generally to find people. It's the better default state.

by konart 5y ago

For most people the said security is not a big issue. Esp. in countries where police can come for you and make you talk by any means. E2EE won't help you if they want you.

smt88 5y ago

"Encryption isn't useful because you can be tortured" is a bizarre and ridiculous argument. The police can only make you talk if they know who to make talk in the first place. Reading your messages tells them who to interrogate, where to find them, who else is involved, etc. Encryption is important especially in such countries.

j16sdiz 5y ago
It is encrypted, just not e2ee. The police need to crack the encryption protocol (not impossible, telegram use non-standard crypto), or somehow gain access to telegram's server farm.
- GoblinSlayer 5y ago
  Wasn't it fixed? It was almost e2ee, but not really due to a bug as it trusted the server, but it was fixed save for key verification, but AFAIK, key verification is an open problem in e2ee.
- throwjs51009 5y ago
  That's not true. Nobody needs to crack any encryption. Check my other comment with 3 links.
konart 5y ago
I'm sorry but as someone from Russia - you are wrong. >Reading your messages tells them who to interrogate, where to find them, who else is involved, etc. Why read my messages if they can start from me? Or that other guy who posted something on twitter? Or any other place? Or talked to someone. I'm not saying encryption is unimportant. I'm saying that it really only matters as long as all parties involved keep their business secure in the first place. Not to mention that they police don't really work with that kind of precision here.
- gonehome 5y ago
  It's not a binary thing. If you can choose secure communication vs. insecure communication you're better off choosing secure. You're right of course this doesn't protect you 100%, but it's a lot better than not having secure communication. Does that mean even with Signal your friend could be compelled to unlock their phone and reveal the comms? Sure. It's still better to have that be the requirement than access to all comms by default. It requires more specific and high effort targeting. It makes it harder to just query keywords generally to find people. It's the better default state.