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I can assure you Zoom is not doing anything that would legally constitute "recording." In all US states and probably a lot of countries, recording is illegal w

I can assure you Zoom is not doing anything that would legally constitute "recording." In all US states and probably a lot of countries, recording is illegal without the consent of at least one party to the conversation. In the US, in some states, all parties must consent to recording. If Zoom were even skirting the line here, their lawyers would put the kibosh on it real quick. Hmm... but, then again, there was that thing where Amazon Alexa was recording people without their knowledge... hmm.

chillfox 5y ago
I have seen the general sentiment of "their own lawyers would stop it" expressed many times about many different things, but who tells the lawyers? Every place I have worked in the past there have been zero pathway for IT/Developers to notify a lawyer about anything or ask a question.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  Really? At places I've been, you could definitely notify a lawyer of an issue, with the process ranging from walking up to their desk to looking up someone in the legal department and emailing them. I've never had cause to actually do it, but I certainly could have, had the situation warranted it.
  - chillfox 5y ago
    Not everywhere has lawyers on staff or an easily searchable directory with accurate titles and department names.
trasz 5y ago
On the other hand, like any other American company Zoom can be “asked” by intelligence services to “cooperate” - and there is no law that would protect its users against it.
- rvnx 5y ago
  "American". The coincidence that "Zoom" and "Zhumu" share the same platform. https://thenextweb.com/news/zooms-scary-webcam-flaw-also-affects-ringcentral-and-zhumu https://thenextweb.com/news/zooms-scary-webcam-flaw-also-aff...
  - trasz 5y ago
    It doesn't matter - the company is American, thus it can be "convinced" into cooperating.
RHSeeger 5y ago
> If Zoom were even skirting the line here, their lawyers would put the kibosh on it real quick. And then the people in charge of the money would do the math on "this earns us 1 billion dollars and the fine has a 10% chance of happening and would be 100 million... so do it anyways, it's worth the tradeoff". This happens over and over.
olliej 5y ago
> I can assure you Zoom is not doing anything that would legally constitute "recording." No need to use quotes here, that was literally my question :D > In all US states and probably a lot of countries, recording is illegal without the consent of at least one party to the conversation. In the US, in some states, all parties must consent to recording. Literally every company that got caught having their assistants record conversations turned around and said the victims were informed and consented through the terms of use agreement.
jamessb 5y ago
> If Zoom were even skirting the line here, their lawyers would put the kibosh on it real quick Their lawyers didn't stop them from claiming to provide end-to-end encryption, a blatant misrepresentation that resulted in receiving a consent order from the FTC [1] and settling a class-action suit for $85M [2], so I don't think it's safe to assume that they would prevent the company from doing obviously unacceptable things. [1]: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1923167zoomacco2.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1923167zoom... [2]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...

chillfox 5y ago

I have seen the general sentiment of "their own lawyers would stop it" expressed many times about many different things, but who tells the lawyers? Every place I have worked in the past there have been zero pathway for IT/Developers to notify a lawyer about anything or ask a question.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
Really? At places I've been, you could definitely notify a lawyer of an issue, with the process ranging from walking up to their desk to looking up someone in the legal department and emailing them. I've never had cause to actually do it, but I certainly could have, had the situation warranted it.
- chillfox 5y ago
  Not everywhere has lawyers on staff or an easily searchable directory with accurate titles and department names.

trasz 5y ago

On the other hand, like any other American company Zoom can be “asked” by intelligence services to “cooperate” - and there is no law that would protect its users against it.

rvnx 5y ago
"American". The coincidence that "Zoom" and "Zhumu" share the same platform. https://thenextweb.com/news/zooms-scary-webcam-flaw-also-affects-ringcentral-and-zhumu https://thenextweb.com/news/zooms-scary-webcam-flaw-also-aff...
- trasz 5y ago
  It doesn't matter - the company is American, thus it can be "convinced" into cooperating.

RHSeeger 5y ago

> If Zoom were even skirting the line here, their lawyers would put the kibosh on it real quick. And then the people in charge of the money would do the math on "this earns us 1 billion dollars and the fine has a 10% chance of happening and would be 100 million... so do it anyways, it's worth the tradeoff". This happens over and over.

olliej 5y ago

> I can assure you Zoom is not doing anything that would legally constitute "recording." No need to use quotes here, that was literally my question :D > In all US states and probably a lot of countries, recording is illegal without the consent of at least one party to the conversation. In the US, in some states, all parties must consent to recording. Literally every company that got caught having their assistants record conversations turned around and said the victims were informed and consented through the terms of use agreement.

jamessb 5y ago

> If Zoom were even skirting the line here, their lawyers would put the kibosh on it real quick Their lawyers didn't stop them from claiming to provide end-to-end encryption, a blatant misrepresentation that resulted in receiving a consent order from the FTC [1] and settling a class-action suit for $85M [2], so I don't think it's safe to assume that they would prevent the company from doing obviously unacceptable things. [1]: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1923167zoomacco2.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1923167zoom... [2]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...